D&D 5E [+] Ways to fix the caster / non-caster gap

[Gammadoodler]

Any reason for all the hostility? Is someone attacking your playstyle, 'cause what I see is more the opposite.

The frustration of retreading the same old ground probably. I imagine you feel the same way whenever someone brings up hit points.

 

[Gammadoodler]

I suppose, in the context of the thread,

[+] Ways to fix the caster / non-caster gap​

"realism"/verisimilitude/immersion assertions usually serve only to shoot down possible solutions?

Which should not be the case, surely we can nerf casters with realism?

"I cast fireball"
"nothing happens!"
"Wha- why not?"
"REALISM!"

I mean, we could at least give them a sleight of hand check and let the DM adjudicate.

This would almost be fair even.

 

[Tony Vargas]

I mean, we could at least give them a sleight of hand check and let the DM adjudicate.

This would almost be fair even.

"I gesture broadly with my right hand and chant loudly while pulling a white phosphorus grenade off the back of my webgear with the left..."

 

[Gammadoodler]

"I gesture broadly with my right hand and chant loudly while pulling a white phosphorus grenade off the back of my webgear with the left..."

...well we don't have spellcasters...

but we do have "spellcasters"..

 

[Cadence]

This is not to say that where it does not interfere with the flow of the game that the highest degree of realism hasn't been attempted

This seems underquoted compared to the rest.

 

[overgeeked]

This seems underquoted compared to the rest.

Sure. But it should be absolutely clear that primacy is placed on it being a game. And verisimilitude is only attempted where it will not interfere with D&D being a game.

 

[Cadence]

Sure. But it should be absolutely clear that primacy is placed on it being a game. And verisimilitude is only attempted where it will not interfere with D&D being a game.

Yup! For some values of interfere anyway (weapon speeds!?!).

 

[Micah Sweet]

Sure. But it should be absolutely clear that primacy is placed on it being a game. And verisimilitude is only attempted where it will not interfere with D&D being a game.

I feel the other way. Verisimilitude should be prioritized unless doing so severely compromises gameplay.

 

[overgeeked]

Yup! For some values of interfere anyway (weapon speeds!?!).

It’s always worth noting that Gygax himself never ran with that kind of complexity.

 

[Mecheon]

(I know this is a bit off-topic but I think ties squarely into the 'we can't use real life comparisons' topic going on because...)

I know, but who knows what a dragon or giant looks like internally… Apart from that I use the argument I hear here so often when it comes to making martials into superheroes: we have all kinds of fantastical stuff, why not dragons and giants…

For a giant to function they would need some new form of matter completely unknown to science. No metals we know of would allow a human-sized mecha to exist alone, yet alone a biological material. The bipedal body plan humans use is bad at big sizes. Really bad. The largest things on Earth are either in the water (which handles the weight issue) or had all four limbs for support, with a pretty regular feature among the largest groups all around being at least large, column-like legs.

Except Spinosaurus, but we don't talk about Spino.

But basically the human bodyplan isn't the 'everyman' that RPGs try to present it as, its a very specialised body plan that's good at endurance. We're long distant pursuit predators when it comes to hunting because bipedality lessens the energy requirements for walking and running, letting us do it longer and just wearing prey down. Human stat bonuses should always be +Con if we're venturing anywhere near realism

.... Basically the realism stuff is never going to end well per the earlier stuff.