D&D 5E [+] Ways to fix the caster / non-caster gap

[James Gasik]

if only they weren’t so hard to kill

Also, as hard as diamond makes for awful building material, you cannot really work with it

Well I was just thinking, humans made stuff out of bone like weapons and even some forms of armor, when better materials weren't available. I imagine a bone club made out of giant bone would be a terror if we're saying their bodies are simply that tough.

Also, if giants have a physiology completely unlike humans...uh...half-giants?

 

[Micah Sweet]

The only problem I have is that verisimilitude is about making sure the fiction stays within the assumptions of the greater setting. No gnomes in Dark Sun, no Jedi in Faerun, etc.

That D&D humans have the exact same limitations as Earth humans isn’t a stated assumption (or even a tacit assumption) of the game rules.

It’s simply a preference some people have that, that’s trying to be cloaked into the game under the title of “verisimilitude”.

I'm sorry, but I'm not going to assume humans that look like RL humans, act like RL humans, and are in fact called humans are fundamentally different from RL humans unless they say so. The idea is ridiculous to me.

 

[Cadence]

Exactly. And my entire argument is that "humans are humans, except for one "physics-shattering exception" is a really strong genre assumption to make, unless it's very explicitly called out by the source text.

I mean, we have in-game examples of where hard work and training will let you shoot fire from your brain (wizard and monk). Why is fighter the only one limited to Earthly reality in terms of what hard work and training will allow him to accomplish?

Does dumping animal excrement and dead bodies in the well cause any inconvenience for humans or is the water probably still fine with no treatment?
Does blindfolding someone stop them from seeing?
Is the human brain located in the hand and the heart located in the foot?
Do humans need to breath (unless they've been held under water)?
Does twisting someones neck really hard hurt them or can they just spin it back?
Do humans poop?
Does too much alcohol make humans get drunk?
Can most humans hear the really high-pitched dog whistles?
Can most humans see the visible light spectrum but not infra red or ultra violet?
Can you generally tell apart a human in their teens and in their 90s just by looking?
Do humans bleed when stabbed?
Do humans bruise when hit hard?
If you someone is tied down to a chair and their arm is cut off will they bleed to death?
Can a decapitated person probably just carry their head around? (Like the one character in the Halloween Dark Angel episode).
Do human children generally grow taller from year to year as they age?
Do humans lay eggs?

If doesn't think "humans are humans" do they need to stop and think about those and similar questions during play if they come up?

 

[Micah Sweet]

Not being able to shoot fire from my brain seems like a pretty big limitation.

Again, in a world with magic, people can apparently learn to shoot fire from their brain. That is not a function of humanity. That is a function of the world.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Does dumping animal excrement and dead bodies in the well cause any inconvenience for humans or is the water probably still fine with no treatment?
Does blindfolding someone stop them from seeing?
Is the human brain located in the hand and the heart located in the foot?
Do humans need to breath (unless they've been held under water)?
Does twisting someones neck really hard hurt them or can they just spin it back?
Do humans poop?
Does too much alcohol make humans get drunk?
Can most humans hear the really high-pitched dog whistles?
Can most humans see the visible light spectrum but not infra red or ultra violet?
Can you generally tell apart a human in their teens and in their 90s just by looking?
Do humans bleed when stabbed?
Do humans bruise when hit hard?
If you someone is tied down to a chair and their arm is cut off will they bleed to death?
Can a decapitated person probably just carry their head around? (Like the one character in the Halloween Dark Angel episode).
Do human children generally grow taller from year to year as they age?
Do humans lay eggs?

If doesn't think "humans are humans" do they need to stop and think about those and similar questions during play if they come up?

It is indeed a fair point that there needs to be certain baseline expectations.

 

[TwoSix]

Right. And I have no issue with the assumption that the basic commoners and the like in the setting are roughly Terran humans. But this is a fantastic world where mythic heroes exist, and it is not uncommon in stories about the mythic heroes them to do things that no real human could.

That's exactly my general assumption when I play.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Again, in a world with magic, people can apparently learn to shoot fire from their brain. That is not a function of humanity. That is a function of the world.

OK. But why cannot we also assume that in world of magic and fantasy heroic humans that have fought dozens of mythical beasts can surpass the physical limitations of normal humans?

 

[CreamCloud0]

Again, in a world with magic, people can apparently learn to shoot fire from their brain. That is not a function of humanity. That is a function of the world.

but the humans are part of the world, if the baselines of this fantasy world are different from our own world then the baselines of the humans in it would thus be similarly different, wouldn't they.

 

[mamba]

Also, if giants have a physiology completely unlike humans...uh...half-giants?

yeah, what can interbreed in D&D makes no sense whatsoever, no matter how you look at it. I have to agree with that

 

[Micah Sweet]

To my mind, they're humans within the context of what human means within that specific fiction. The definition of "human" is not a constant that can cross between fictional universes.

Edit: Think of Superman. Superman looks like a human, acts like a human, has pretty much identical cognitive processes as a human, and can even successfully cross-breed with humans. But no one calls him a human, because he comes from a different planet and has magical powers. Why is Superman an alien and Elminster of Faerun is a human, outside of the genre conceits?

Superman's explicitly non-magical powers (he actually has a problem with magic) are a result of his alien physiology, manifested due to Earth's yellow sun. His genre calls him out as not human, and his abilities come from his being not human. There is no outside genre conceits here.

And all Kryptonians have powers like Superman's because its a species trait of Kryptonians. Do all humans in the Forgotten Realms have magic Elminster? Did Elminister get magic because of who he is from a species perspective? Of course not, because your example makes no sense.