Ways to lower resistance to Speak with Dead?

[NewJeffCT]

At the end of the last session, the PCs ran into a dead body of an evil cleric that had done them a favor a while back in the campaign (sort of a scratch my back and i'll scratch your sort of thing)... they were interested in casting Speak with Dead on the cleric's corpse and were trying to think of ways to lower the corpse's Will save, as they knew this cleric was very high level and might still resist.

I don't think the cleric has Heighten Spell as a feat, but I suggested Miracle to cast a Speak with Dead as a level 8 spell.

Any other ideas? How about other spells that would function similarly to Speak with Dead?

Thanks

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

I don't think the cleric has Heighten Spell as a feat, but I suggested Miracle to cast a Speak with Dead as a level 8 spell.

Minor quibble: If cast via Miracle, it would be a 9th level spell, with the save DC of a 9th level spell (19 + wis mod). Just like Shadow Evocation has the save DC of a 5th level spell, even though it only mimicks up to 4th level spells.

 

[udalrich]

If anybody in the party has a good Use Magic Device, they could emulate the evil cleric's alignment. It's not clear to me whether this would prevent the save, so consult your GM first. (Looking at the rules, I'd say that it likely works if you use a scroll, but not if you cast the spell, since there's not magic item being used in that case.) If you're not sure of the chaotic/lawful alignment, a couple of castings of Augury would likely give you the answer. (I plan to emulate chaotic evil and then cast speak with dead, followed by castings with the other alignments.)

You could also probably couple it with a second casting of Miracle. One possible effect is "Have any effect whose power level is in line with the above effects." Bestow Curse is a 3rd level cleric spell that gives -4 to saves. A corpse isn't a valid target for it, but extending the target to "any creature or corpse" shouldn't make it more powerful than an eighth level spell. It does have a Will negates clause, so success isn't guaranteed, but you do get the 9th level spell save DC. Actually, charm person is probably an even better option here, as I would expect it to cause the cleric to forgo the save on Speak with Dead.

Another option would be to use Miracle to allow the corpse to be affected by spells and similar effects as if it were alive. This is much more of a case where you need to ask your GM if it will work. However, if it works, you can then apply a plethora of debuffs to the cleric. Note that the cleric won't be able to cast any round/level debuffs, as they'll expire during the casting of Speak With Dead.

 

[Physiker]

I don't see any other possibility to get "speak with dead" with a raised DC other than miracle.
But perhaps they could start on a plane trip to find his soul and talk to it "face to face". I do not realy know how this would work but it might be a nice subadvanture...

 

[NewJeffCT]

Thanks - there is no soul left to find. It's been trapped via Soul Binding.

 

[Physiker]

You could houserule speak with dead in a way that it is more like the DC of banishment.
So the DC gets harder when you have something the person loved in life or wanted or something like that.
I actually reward my player character if the can think of something like that.

But of course it's not a legal way by the RAW...

 

[Michael Silverbane]

Thanks - there is no soul left to find. It's been trapped via Soul Binding.

Could they make that into a sort of magic 8-ball (assuming that they are in possession of the soul)?

 

[NewJeffCT]

Could they make that into a sort of magic 8-ball (assuming that they are in possession of the soul)?

No, they are not in possession of the soul. The evil high priest of the dead cleric's religion has it - because the dead cleric helped the PCs out once, he took revenge and killed her & trapped her soul.

 

[Shin Okada]

At least, that Evil Cleric's magic items are not working anymore. So his will save should be slightly lowered. But yeah, It seems not much ways to raise the DC of Speak with Dead spell.

There always be other divination spells, too. If both the PCs and the dead cleric are high-leveled characters, PCs can try Legend Lore. Someone with 11+ level is considered legendary for this spell. As a DM, you may give whatever information you consider to be reasonable.

 

[NewJeffCT]

At least, that Evil Cleric's magic items are not working anymore. So his will save should be slightly lowered. But yeah, It seems not much ways to raise the DC of Speak with Dead spell.

There always be other divination spells, too. If both the PCs and the dead cleric are high-leveled characters, PCs can try Legend Lore. Someone with 11+ level is considered legendary for this spell. As a DM, you may give whatever information you consider to be reasonable.

That is an excellent idea. I need to spread XP around more before giving to you again, though.