Ways to make daggers good?

[Twowolves]

As I recall, both the Invisible Blade and the Master Thrower PrCs in the Complete Warrior book were written by the same guy, and he submitted it as a single 10-level class. Once upon a time, you could find it on the web somewhere, and I think that it just might fit the bill.

 

[Legildur]

Actually, that'd make a reasonable feat. Give it TWF as a pre-requisite and call it Undersize Two Weapon Fighting. Benefit: When using two light weapons, your penalties for two weapon fighting are reduced by 1, to a minimum of 0.

The Tempest PrC in Complete Adventurer provides that sort of ability.

A Fighter/Tempest would make a reasonably nasty knife fighter. Sure, not fully optimized for damage, but he should hold his own (particularly if grappled).

Feats like Weapon Focus/Specialisation (dagger), (Improved) Two Weapon Fighting, (Improved) Two Weapon Defense, Dodge, Close Quarters Combat, and Melee Weapon Mastery (slashing) would be a good place to start if you didn't want to rely on sneak attacks.

 

[comrade raoul]

As other folks have mentioned, daggers are just shortswords that do a bit less damage, but that can be thrown. This can make them handy for rogues, who can throw a barrage of daggers against flat-footed opponents to easily perform multiple sneak attacks on the first round of combat.

The whisperknife class (in Races of the Wild) is a nice prestige class that emphasizes the throwing aspect while combining a reasonable sneak attack ability with a full BAB ability. It's only for halflings, but it could be easily adapted into a class designed to model any stealthy, versatile knifefighter.

 

[Solarious]

How about mixing the Invisible Blade with the Blade Bravo of the Gnomes from Races of Stone, then adding all those beautiful anti-larger creature feats from Races of the Wild, and then have a permenant Reduce Person effect on you?

Well, you could do it with kukris too, but daggers give such a cinamatic feel to it while giving you the ability to spam daggers at your object(s) of dislike. Also, items return to their normal size when they leave your possession, if you can manage to kill their Dex-to-AC while not flanking them.

 

[Stalker0]

Go with rogue of course. I think as others have mentioned, daggers are about as useful as shortswords in melee (especially to a rogue, who cares how much the base weapon does when your dealing SA) but you can throw them at people. This is especially useful in the that surprise round (quick draw the dagger and get a sneak attack vs having to charge into the group of baddies).

Also, the other benefit of rogues is their concealment ability. If you go into places that don't allow weapons, its much easier to hide a dagger than another weapon. 1d4 doesn't look so bad when the rest of the party is unarmed

 

[Big Bucket]

I'm playing a dagger wielder right now. Two levels of fighter, three or four rogue (haven't got this far yet), then back and forth in Invisible Blade and Master Thrower and finish up with rogue levels to 20th. Right now he's not the strongest, but those two prestige classes will definitely help with abilities and good base attack bonuses.

 

[RigaMortus2]

In Tome of Battle, there is a maneuver called Insightful Strike. You make a melee attack (such as with a Dagger) and then make a Concentration check in place of damage. Basically, your Concentration check becomes your damage. Nice way to make a Dagger do a lot more damage than it normally could.

 

[Vraister]

(particularly if grappled)

That got me thinking. A strong grappling specialist who specializes in daggers could be quite nasty.

Vraister

 

[Zaruthustran]

Seventh level halfling fighter4/rogue3:

1: R1: WF: dagger (1d6 sneak)
2: F1: PBS
3: R2: Quickdraw (evasion)
4: F2: Rapid Shot
5: R3: (2d6 sneak)
6: F3: TWF
7: F4 WS: Dagger

Assume 20 Dex (16 base is not too bad even at 28 point buy, +2 racial mod, +2 item)

He's throwing at (+6 BAB, +5 Dex, +1 Size, +1 halfling throw, +1 WF, +1 PBS) +15/+10. Even if he Rapid Shoots he's at +13/+13/+8. Rapid Shot + TWF is +11/+11/+11/+6. He'll likely hit.

Assume 14 Str (14 base, -2 racial mod, +2 item). Within 30' he'll do 1d4+5 damage. Which is 2d4+10 if he hits with two throws, or 3d4+15 for three (assuming the iterative attack misses). That's not crazy damage, but it's respectable since he can do it from a distance (and the bad guy won't be able to do a full melee attack in return).

Add in the sneak attack damage and it starts to get ugly. The +5 init mod is pretty decent, and he's stealthy (+19 Hide, counting full ranks, size mod, and elven cloak), so he'll likely get the drop on his opponent. If he has a friendly wizard with Improved Invis then he's good to go. A full invisible attack from this guy will do significant damage: 4d4+20+8d6, is he's within 30' and all hit.

Ouch!

There are a few problems. Even a halfling with 14 Str can only carry so many dagger. Damage reduction is a big issue. Undead, constructs, plants, and things with uncanny dodge are other problems. But yeah, daggers can be effective.

If he wants melee/doesn't want to be a halfling, go the kukri or short sword route. Kukri are curved daggers with blades on only one edge, short swords are big daggers. Check out Swashbuckler (int to damage), and the Dervish PRC (esp for kukris).

 

[Stalker0]

Your forgetting the -4 penalty for range though, remember daggers only have 10 foot range.