Ways to make daggers good?

[Storyteller01]

Go with rogue of course. I think as others have mentioned, daggers are about as useful as shortswords in melee (especially to a rogue, who cares how much the base weapon does when your dealing SA) but you can throw them at people. This is especially useful in the that surprise round (quick draw the dagger and get a sneak attack vs having to charge into the group of baddies).

Also, the other benefit of rogues is their concealment ability. If you go into places that don't allow weapons, its much easier to hide a dagger than another weapon. 1d4 doesn't look so bad when the rest of the party is unarmed

Also, the Way of the Ninja has a feat that increases a dagger's threat range and damage (to 1d6) while sneak attacking. It's situational though.

 

[comrade raoul]

And, finally, here are a couple of homebrewed dagger feats that might come in handy...

 

[Zaruthustran]

Your forgetting the -4 penalty for range though, remember daggers only have 10 foot range.

I assumed he was within 10', but yeah, if he's at range he takes a -4. Oof! Might be worth picking up Far Shot.

 

[pawsplay]

A fighter specialized in daggers could get +2 damage in both ranged and melee. That's a nice two for one deal. With Quick Draw and a number of daggers, you could build a character very effective at dealing with various kinds of DR.

Master Thrower works out nice, particularly if you can find a way to get some extra arms.

If I were building a dagger fighter, I would go Rogue 2, then Fighter 4, then back to rogue and all the way up for sneak attack damage. I'd use two weapon fighting, two weapon defense, weapon specialization (dagger) and other dagger feats (Power Critical, Improved Critical. For damage output, you want a dagger with elemental damage, such as flaming, shocking, etc.

 

[irdeggman]

I assumed he was within 10', but yeah, if he's at range he takes a -4. Oof! Might be worth picking up Far Shot.

Which doubles the range for thrown weapons instead of the 1 1/2 times for projectile ones.

TWF with "special properties" adds up pretty quickly to damage and other effects. Wounding adds up damage pretty quick with the gift that keeps on givine (-1 Con).

 

[DarkKestral]

Or, if he has a few thousand gp to spend, a couple distance returning daggers. Distance is a +1 bonus weapon ability that doubles your range increment. It also stacks with Far Shot so it's possible to have a 40 foot range increment with a dagger! Likewise, you can also use Rapid Shot... If you have +16 or better BAB and Rapid Shot, consider buying 5 distance, returning +1 Mithril daggers. Since they officially are of 'negligable' weight... they do not affect ANY class's encumbrance... and they also happen to be all you need to keep up a damage string of 5 ranged attacks a round. If you TWF, you'll have some problems, since you'll need up to 9 (4+3 for TWF, +1 for rapid shot +1 for haste/speed effects) but you'll be doing up to 9d4+72d6+18+Str bonus a round, and doing that from up to 30 foot away.

 

[ValhallaGH]

Seventh level halfling fighter4/rogue3:

1: R1: WF: dagger (1d6 sneak)
2: F1: PBS
3: R2: Quickdraw (evasion)
4: F2: Rapid Shot
5: R3: (2d6 sneak)
6: F3: TWF
7: F4 WS: Dagger

Assume 20 Dex (16 base is not too bad even at 28 point buy, +2 racial mod, +2 item)

He's throwing at (+6 BAB, +5 Dex, +1 Size, +1 halfling throw, +1 WF, +1 PBS) +15/+10. Even if he Rapid Shoots he's at +13/+13/+8. Rapid Shot + TWF is +11/+11/+11/+6. He'll likely hit.

Assume 14 Str (14 base, -2 racial mod, +2 item). Within 30' he'll do 1d4+5 damage. Which is 2d4+10 if he hits with two throws, or 3d4+15 for three (assuming the iterative attack misses). That's not crazy damage, but it's respectable since he can do it from a distance (and the bad guy won't be able to do a full melee attack in return).

Add in the sneak attack damage and it starts to get ugly. The +5 init mod is pretty decent, and he's stealthy (+19 Hide, counting full ranks, size mod, and elven cloak), so he'll likely get the drop on his opponent. If he has a friendly wizard with Improved Invis then he's good to go. A full invisible attack from this guy will do significant damage: 4d4+20+8d6, is he's within 30' and all hit.

Ouch!

There are a few problems. Even a halfling with 14 Str can only carry so many dagger. Damage reduction is a big issue. Undead, constructs, plants, and things with uncanny dodge are other problems. But yeah, daggers can be effective.

If he wants melee/doesn't want to be a halfling, go the kukri or short sword route. Kukri are curved daggers with blades on only one edge, short swords are big daggers. Check out Swashbuckler (int to damage), and the Dervish PRC (esp for kukris).

Um... Halfling-sized daggers are only 1d3.
*moves along*

 

[Unkabear]

He might be better to place the high stat in str and take the brutal throw* feat followed by power attack and power throw*. Use str to hit thrown instead of dex, and power attack at range as well as when your opponent is standing next to you. Mixed with SA he could be dealing some hefty damage. Though his ac would suffer a bit so make sure to get some good magic items to make up for the loss.

*Complete Adventure

 

[Korak]

consider buying 5 distance, returning +1 Mithril daggers.... and they also happen to be all you need to keep up a damage string of 5 ranged attacks a round.

How precisely do you catch and sheath/hold all 5 (or 9) daggers at the beginning of your next turn? It is also a major disadvantage to not be able to move after your attacks, not even a 5' or have all your expensive magical daggers become unattended magic items begging to be fireballed.

 

[DarkKestral]

Technically, catching a returning weapon is a free action, therefore, it really doesn't matter, as long as you have one hand free, it can be assumed you can catch the things. Quick Draw also makes drawing a weapon a free action. If you're using a bunch of daggers, it's probably reasonable to pick up the Quick Draw feat, since otherwise, you're limited to 1 or 2 daggers thrown a round.

I merely thought up the combo for pure dagger-throwing cheese. It's also a 20 level combo for rogues, since it needs 7 feats to work properly. (Quick Draw, Rapid Shot, Far Shot, PBS, TWF, ITWF, GTWF) A human Rog 20 or a Rog 19/Ftr 1 could add in Precise Shot, and a human Rog 19/Ftr 1 or Rog 18/Ftr 2 could add in Improved Precise Shot, which would eventually allow the user to not take cover penalties from all but total cover or concealment and always hit grappling opponents if you make your to-hit roll.

EDIT: Sheathing is still a bit more difficult, but you can always drop a returning dagger as a free action. Since this happens JUST before your next turn, Mr. Wizard can't immediately fireball your daggers, unless he has an immediate-action cast-length spell that has a fireball-like effect.