we can trust the church, can't we?

My current homebrew features a major church called The Right Way, and its lawful adherents range from diabolical to saintly though they all profess to follow the Right Way. The Right Way's ultimate purpose is to prop up the "right" of the nobility to rule. It is also currently in cahoots with the only sanctioned wizard guild in the land, the Arcane Society. This guild has lists of restricted and forbidden spells, and offers bounties on scrolls or spellbooks with such if turned in to a guildhall. "Natural" spellcasters like sorcerers or psions are generally shunned, and often these natural casters have either a fiendish or undead mentor, or have a fiendish or draconic bloodline, making them something other than "normal". I also use a "cultist" NPC class as a pretty common evil NPC encounter -- it's basically a "sorcerer lite" class.

It's a fun bit of background for my homebrew but I'm not making too much of a big deal about it. It does add some flavor when the PCs find a forbidden spell -- do they try to learn it themselves or do they pass it along to the guild, the only legit place to buy magic items and get magical training?
 
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IMC, there are so many deities that the churches are wildly schismed, with a lot of divine politics going on. And yet, they all realize that they have something in common, so even evil and good churches are allied in their opposition of dragons.

While all my churches have internal politics, there are no major theocracies. The loosely bound world government has one divine consul, but that's always a druid.

Practically, churches serve as soucres of knowledge, healing, and magic items, and are also great for assigning quests to religious PCs.
 

I guess I run my churches much like the OP does. In my camapigns, religion is the domanin of mortals, a structure set up and governed by men to worship gods. Gods don't run churches. They have slightly more important things to tend to. This being the case, religion and religious institutions are subject to all the foibles of mortality (e.g., greed, hubris, etc). Now, that said. . .

There are prophets in my campaigns, men or women who actually do have a 'direct line' to their god or gods (something that churches in general do not have). These folks don't spend their time interpreting religious texts to fit their own agendas but, rather, get their orders from the gods themselves, personally. In point of fact, many prophets are decried as charletains by organized religions because of the divide between what a given god really wants and what the Church is convinced he/she wants.
 

I didn't put much emphasis on the churches' roles until I got Complete Champion. The church writeups gave me a much better idea on how to use them effectively in the game and what agendas they might have.

Now, I am regularly including encounters with followers of some church. They make for fun roleplaying and/or focused, themed combat encounters.
 

Wik:- I really like your churches. Strong social roles for each of them making them something like guilds as well as churches.

And the religious war fought for what basically comes down to semantics: brilliant and oh so true to life.

Some good food for thought here. I'm going to take a few of these ideas and fit them to current game. :)
 

3 out of the 6 pc's IMC are linked to churches - although the churches themselves aren't split into openly rival factions (except where the countries are at war and clerics could fight on either side), they all have internal politics, and they all have local agendas that could (and fairly soon will) affect the party - I would like to expand but several of my group surf this board and i don't want to spoil the surprise

Just a note - IMC the clerics are linked to their god and so cannot actively work against his wishes - that does leave a lot of internal politics that the god will leave to the church to sort out, but it means that you can't have rebellion within the church without losing powers or other priests becoming aware.

I have a large pantheon of deities, six major, and a lots of minor ones so that stops any one faith becoming dominant - my current base city has one of the major gods (Magic), and one of the minor gods (books) as its 'official' faiths, plus a local great spirit (dragon) which is followed by the rest of the population. Lots of other faiths are present, just not with the same profile. Other faiths are worshipped and one of the PC's has just revamped the shrine to his god (Challenges) and is trying to increase its profile in the city

It is easy to fall into the trap that religion is just large building with a safe full of healing potions / scrolls that can be negotiated away in an emergency, but its easy to add a little colour and faiths give you a lot of colour for very little effort
 

I guess I run my churches much like the OP does. In my camapigns, religion is the domanin of mortals, a structure set up and governed by men to worship gods. Gods don't run churches. They have slightly more important things to tend to. This being the case, religion and religious institutions are subject to all the foibles of mortality (e.g., greed, hubris, etc). Now, that said. . .

There are prophets in my campaigns, men or women who actually do have a 'direct line' to their god or gods (something that churches in general do not have). These folks don't spend their time interpreting religious texts to fit their own agendas but, rather, get their orders from the gods themselves, personally. In point of fact, many prophets are decried as charletains by organized religions because of the divide between what a given god really wants and what the Church is convinced he/she wants.


That is an astute set of observations regarding both the religious and spiritual life and how they sometimes overlap and sometimes work at counter-purposes.

In the world we play (I run it and my characters actually play in it) we use real-world religions, sects, divisions, (Christianity, Islam, Zoroastrianism, a few left over pagan cults, Judaism, and so forth) and what might later be called denominations, etc. and so it is rather easy to incorporate historical events and religious disputes, debates, ideas, ideals into both the general game and the events/actions surrounding and taken by the player characters.

But there is always tension, as well as sometimes mutual admiration and cooperation, between churches, mosques, synagogues, bureaucratic hierarchy, religious officials and administrators on the one hand, and mystics, monks, hermits, holy men, prophets, Saints and others who wish to see both spiritual and religious life flower in an individualistic way, rather than a strictly organizational, official, and/or hierarchical manner.

And the characters, one of whom is a monk, another a cleric, a third a mystic, are often caught in the middle between service to God and man, service to church, service to master or superior, and service to state, and how those various forces often have to operate mutually to achieve common goals and often conflict or oppose one another in the pursuit of varied goals.

It is interesting to watch my players and their characters struggle to sometimes try and reach compromise, and sometimes begrudgingly to oppose emperor or commander or abbot or bishop or maybe even each other when a particularly difficult religious or spiritual problem presents itself.

Of course as DM I don't really take a stand between who I think is right in any given situation; Bishop or Saint, Emperor or Church, monk or cleric, mystic or priest. I leave that for them to figure out according to the circumstances and how events play out and generally I try to write adventures that are complex and realistic enough that everybody might be right to a degree and everybody might be wrong to a degree. Or that the wrong party might be honestly earnest in their error, or that the right party too strict and overbearing in their demands. Then let the players see if they can contribute to a workable solution for everybody. Or not.

Anyway I thought your general observation was insightful.
 

In my current campaign, I've sketched out a broad sample of Churches that some of the various characters have been affiliated. All the gods are drawn from the Player's Handbook, but are worshipped (or not) in different ways by different Churches. In the most recent session devout (or demented, depending on view-point) Secret Religious Police caught up with the party Binder, intent on arresting and/or executing him.

The major faith is the Pelorite Church, which views Pelor as king of the gods. The older, Imperial Orthodox Pelorite Church - imported to the setting continent with the Great Empire - includes only Heironeus as a divinity - he is Pelor's son and heir. All other "gods" are in fact demons to an true follower of the Imperial dogma. Even Hextor, Pelor's other son, is not regarded as a true god - his fall made certain of that. The Seraphim Order (the aforementioned secret police) are part of the Imperial Orthodoxy.

Branching from the Imperial Orthodoxy is the Salacian Orthodoxy, of Salac, the major military and cultural power of Crucis. This Church recognises a third god - St Cuthbert - who is seen as Pelor's friend, and Heironeus tutor. St Cuthbert is only recognised by the Salacian Orthodxoy, and is recalled as a Salacian in life. The Salacians recognise as additional category of being - Spirits - which largely encompasses the gods of the heathen faiths - not evil like Demons, but neither so benevolent nor so powerful as Pelor and chums. They include Kord and Ehlonna in this "Spirit" category, despite teaching that they are Pelor's other children in Salacian view, an understanding drawn from passages in Apocrypha referring to older children of Pelor's. Kord and Ehlonna are certainly seen as "failed" children, and are not worshipped.

The last offshoot of the Orthodox is the Southern Templar Tradition. This is the most pantheist of the three, representing Pelor as noble king and father to Heironeus, Kord and Ehlonna. Unlike either of the other two Pelorite faiths, the Templar Tradition scews strongly towards a chaotic attitude, and is much more aggressive and war-like. Unlike either Orthodoxy, the Templar Tradition divide up the various gods into discrete groupings.

Kord and Ehlonna were included in the Pelorite Church when the Empire converted the natives - the Cales and the Argyles - of the continent to Pelorism. The humans of the Dvurgard, and some Argyles, still revere the two in their original aspect of Kade and Allana, much more elemental gods, and are not linked at brother and sister.

In the northern and western portions of Crucis, Wee Jas joined them as a triumvirate. Wee Jas is revered in two aspects. Amongst the Argyle peoples, she is worshipped as a goddess of Death and Knowledge, shaven headed, ritually scarred priests keeping libraries of forgotten lore. In Embre, the westernmost nation of Crucis, the worship of Wee Jas takes on an aspect of celebrating life, and she is mostly seen as the goddess of Magic and Beauty. In particular, her order of itinerant Paladins spread the word and love of their goddess across the continent. Druids and Gnoll worship a much older vision of the goddess, as Queen of the Deep Places, and (especially among the gnolls) living sacrifice of men is practiced under the light of her consort, the moon.

In the Dvurgard, the southernmost main-land kingdom - Wee Jas' position is usurped by Moradin, who the humans see as a wise uncle to brash Kade and young Alanna. He taught them the secret of steel, and of fire, much as Dvurgard Dwarves trade fine weapons with the native humans.

Well, I could go on (I know I have a bit already!) but suffice it to say, I quite like making up this sort of thing. I've got a few more bits and pieces, and I hope this gives you a bit of a view into the setting I inflict on my players.
 

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