Weak Deaths

[Zhaleskra]

However, in games where injury and death are appropriate genre considerations, removing them changes the game to the point where I find it is better to play a game such expectations are part of the rule set and a automatic understanding of the players. For me, a death could only be considered 'weak' if the character dies despite the game rules instead of because of them.

This. I don't like people changing the core assumptions of games on me. PC death free or very rare-that better be the default assumption of the system. No matter how unfair a death may feel to a player, unless it happened by GM fiat (and often even then), it happened for a reason.

 

[Hussar]

Now, Nagol and Zhaleskra, I can totally agree with that. Particularly I would never advocate changing core assumptions AFTER a campaign was started with a particular game. Yuck, no thank you.

And, really, D&D is probably a poor fit for a game where death is off the table. It can be done, but, it's a bit of a square peg round hole situation. I'd much rather switch systems if I was going to take death completely off the table.

I dislike certain elements in D&D - mostly the one shot gotcha style monsters - simply because I find them very boring and one dimensional. But, that's a personal preference.

In a more plotsy style D&D campaign, such as an Adventure Path, I might reduce the chance of dying (burn all your remaining AP's to not die, but to be alive at -9 hp and stable) but I've never removed it altogether.

 

[kitsune9]

A weak death for me that would be death on a skill check probably doesn't happen in my campaign. In the drowning example, I'd only call for checks if someone goes diving in the water wearing their gear and full plate to boot, but for the most part and using common sense, I wouldn't call for such checks.

However, I tend to roll my dice out in the open for the players so even in mook fights, a PC death can happen. My most recent example was that there was a fight between the party and these raging barbarian/fighter cultists. One of them nearly outright killed the rogue and the other critted the paladin for so much damage that he went from Hero to Zero and had to be raised the following day. Death happens.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Does death in character generation (*cough* Traveler *cough*) count?

Though I personally kind of enjoyed that bit of system lethality ...

 

[Iron Sky]

Back in middle school, I pretty much ended roleplaying for one of my friends. It was back in the 2e AD&D days and he had gotten a Paladin up to level 7. After they had murdered a group of gypsies because they thought they were vampires (another story) he ended up being a young woman's curse-bonded protector (yet another story).

Long story short, they were underground and had to swim through a flooded underwater tunnel to get to where they were going, the young woman started to drown, he went back to save her, and failed his swim checks 4 times. The monk dove in to drag him out, only to have him fail 5 more checks to recover from being drowned.

I guess the dice dictated that he die, but afterwards, my friend got up, said "I'm done with RPGs" and didn't play anything again for years. He's played once in a while when we run scifi games, but that was pretty much the end of roleplaying for him...

^^^ Results of swim-death.

 

[Iron Sky]

<Wrong Thread>

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Of course this reminds me of:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yXAEzp6W-U&feature=related]YouTube - Dr. Demento's Always the First to Die video via DAOC[/ame]

 

[the Jester]

Back in middle school, I pretty much ended roleplaying for one of my friends. It was back in the 2e AD&D days and he had gotten a Paladin up to level 7. After they had murdered a group of gypsies because they thought they were vampires (another story) he ended up being a young woman's curse-bonded protector (yet another story).

Long story short, they were underground and had to swim through a flooded underwater tunnel to get to where they were going, the young woman started to drown, he went back to save her, and failed his swim checks 4 times. The monk dove in to drag him out, only to have him fail 5 more checks to recover from being drowned.

I guess the dice dictated that he die, but afterwards, my friend got up, said "I'm done with RPGs" and didn't play anything again for years. He's played once in a while when we run scifi games, but that was pretty much the end of roleplaying for him...

I just saw this quoted in your post, and I have to make a comment.

Your friend failed 9 checks in a row. I'm sorry, but if I fail 9 checks in a row in a potentially lethal situation, I wouldn't be put out at all by dying. I mean, sheesh, what did this guy think it should take to warrant a pc death, the Mayan Apocalypse?

Either he didn't really care for gaming in the first place, he was pretty much done with it anyway or he was kind of a baby. In any of these cases, he did the right thing by quitting.

 

[Hussar]

Yeah, I gotta say, I wouldn't call 9 failed checks a weak death. That's bloody awesome!

 

[Dragon Sin-Camealot]

Is it weak because it wasn't designed that way ahead of time?

I'm not going to overobjectify. It's safe to say it's very rare. Chances are the character did his/her bit for king and country before kicking the bucket.

That's a difference between fiction and reality. Part of the Upper Limit of Fiction.