Weapon focus/spec Grapple?

[CullAfulMoshuN]

Was just making up an NPC whose preferred method of attack is to grapple and strangle opponents. He is a 6th level human fighter (monk class was not appropriate for the character), who also sometimes uses a great club if the situation requires it.

Feats:

• Cleave
• Great Cleave
• Improved Bullrush
• Improved Unarmed Strike
• Power Attack
• Sunder
• Weapon Focus (Unarmed Strike)
• Weapon Specialisation (Unarmed Strike)

Ok so I have my own opinion on this but thought I'd through it up to see what others though. Would the weapon focus and weapon specialisation in unarmed strike factor in when grappling? If not, is it feasible to take weapon focus/specialisation directly in Grapple?

Also can you use Power Attack while grappling?

 

[kreynolds]

Ok so I have my own opinion on this but thought I'd through it up to see what others though. Would the weapon focus and weapon specialisation in unarmed strike factor in when grappling? If not, is it feasible to take weapon focus/specialisation directly in Grapple?

Also can you use Power Attack while grappling?

My gut says no. Power attack, weapon focus (unarmed attack), and weapon specialization (unarmed attack) would help you with the attack that is necessary to start the grapple. However, my gut might very well be on vacation.

 

[whatisitgoodfor]

Weapon Focus (Unarmed Strike) and Weapon Focus (Grapple) are seperate feats, therefore you would need Weapon Specialization twice also.

IMO, Power Attack should still apply to grapple checks, since they are simply a special type of attack action.

Finally, keep in mind that you can still make melee attacks with any light weapon (including your unarmed attack) while grappling.

Therefore, you could simply take WF and WS once and use them to an extent while grappling and while striking.

 

[CullAfulMoshuN]

Weapon Focus (Unarmed Strike) and Weapon Focus (Grapple) are seperate feats, therefore you would need Weapon Specialization twice also.

Yeah thats what I was thinking also, but I am hung up over whether it is even possible to take a weapon focus or spec (grapple), and if it is, would the weapon focus (grapple) also aid in the touch attack to initiate the grapple, or only on grapple checks once grapple is engaged. If not, would weapon focus (unarmed strike) factor into the grapple checks or touch attack to initialise??

By definition power attack actually reduces your base attack until your next action and adds to all melee attacks made until then, which I assume includes both grapple checks and the touch attack to initialise.

Weapon focus and spec say that each time they are taken they apply to a different weapon that the character is proficient with. Grappling is an action however, not a weapon, the weapon being the characters limbs. Furthermore, does a creature with improved grab and weapon focus/finess in the attack form they use improved grab with still uses the modified attack bonus for its grapple checks? If so would a character not also?

Thoughts?

 

[hong]

A grapple is an attack form, not a weapon. Thus you can't take Weapon Focus/Weapon Spec in it, any more than you can take Weapon Focus/Weapon Spec in trip, disarm, sunder, etc. There are other feats for boosting these attack forms. (Let's not get into what unarmed strikes count as....)

A grapple check is not an attack roll, thus you cannot use Weapon Focus (unarmed strike) with it. However, it would count for the initial touch attack, if made with an unarmed attack.

Similarly, Power Attack would be useless for a grapple check, since it's not an attack/damage roll.

If you have OA, have a look at the unarmed combat feats there. Some of them are very nice for a specialist grappler -- Improved Grapple (negates AoOs against grapplers, much like a monster's improved grab), Earth's Embrace, etc.

 

[whatisitgoodfor]

A grapple is an attack form, not a weapon. Thus you can't take Weapon Focus/Weapon Spec in it

From the PHB 86 Weapon Focus Description:
"You can choose 'unarmed strike' or 'grapple' for your weapon for purposes of this feat."

Since the only prereq for WS is WF, you should thus be able to take WS (Grapple). Of course the extra damage would only apply when making a grapple check for damage.

 

[hong]

From the PHB 86 Weapon Focus Description:
"You can choose 'unarmed strike' or 'grapple' for your weapon for purposes of this feat."

Since the only prereq for WS is WF, you should thus be able to take WS (Grapple). Of course the extra damage would only apply when making a grapple check for damage.

Oh well, that will teach me to check my facts before posting nonsense to web boards.

Was that in the 1st printing PHB as well?

 

[CullAfulMoshuN]

Ah yes it does too, I missed that. Thanks whatisitgoodfor, that pretty much answers my query.