Weapon/Implement Expertise: +1 to-hit?! Yuck!

[blargney the second]

So those rogues didn't take Nimble Blade? This is better for them if they did.

They did get Nimble Blade eventually - after Backstabber.

 

[yesnomu]

They did get Nimble Blade eventually - after Backstabber.

Well, they will want to take WE, then. It's strictly better.

 

[blargney the second]

Nimble Blade gives an untyped bonus, so it stacks with things like Combat Reflexes, etc. If the new feat gives a feat bonus, it's not as gimme as you're implying.

 

[Mengu]

Nimble Blade gives an untyped bonus, so it stacks with things like Combat Reflexes, etc. If the new feat gives a feat bonus, it's not as gimme as you're implying.

How many feat bonuses are there that give an attack bonus and would not stack with another feat bonus from Expertise? Hellfire Blood is the only one I see.

Despite being only for a weapon category or implement, this feat is flat out better than any other feat that gives a conditional attack bonus, jumping ahead of all such feats.

It's much like the situation with Powerful Charge. You are much better off taking superior weapon, weapon focus or one of the racial training feats before getting Powerful Charge.

 

[Obryn]

I don't have a problem if some feats are better than others, especially if they have high entry requirements. For example, I think racial feats should definitely be better than regular feats.

I also take it as a given that some feats will be better than others. For example, Superior Weapon Proficiency (after AV) is a must-have feat for any non-Rogue weapon-based character.

A straight-up +1 to attack with a weapon or implement, without any entry requirements to speak of, is ... well, it's enormous, and I don't think I would much like it. That's basically a must-have feat for everyone at that point, since there are only a bare handful of other ways to get attack bonuses.

Nevertheless, we're still in wait-and-see mode at the moment. I would like to see the published version before leaping to conclusions based on a demo character sheet.

-O

 

[Henrix]

If it's true it is too obligatory, and too boring. A good feat should add some character to the character.

 

[Frostmarrow]

The second rank designers get a shot at the system. It happens every edition. Look out for the mercurial greatswords next.

 

[Cadfan]

Nimble Blade gives an untyped bonus, so it stacks with things like Combat Reflexes, etc. If the new feat gives a feat bonus, it's not as gimme as you're implying.

1. Combat Reflexes is an untyped bonus. So it stacks with feat bonuses.

2. Even if it weren't, Combat Reflexes is a +1 attack bonus under certain conditions, ie, when making an opportunity attack. Expertise appears to be a +1 attack bonus under a different condition, ie, when using a particular weapon group. If you only use one melee weapon, all of your opportunity attacks will occur with that weapon, and Expertise would therefore be strictly superior to Combat Reflexes.

Its not, because they stack, but if Combat Reflexes WERE to be a typed bonus, and Expertise was a similarly typed bonus, it would just mean that Expertise had made Combat Reflexes irrelevant for any character wielding only one type of weapon at a time.

I don't want to jump to conclusions too much either, but... if it has a drawback, I certainly can't find it on any of the character sheets.

 

[boar]

I agree that this feat, if published, is idiotic. I think, however, that in any system which features a near-constant stream of supplementary materials, you just have to accept the fact that at some point, somewhere, some incredibly stupid thing is going to be published. When that happens, you ban it and move on.

My high school band director used to complain that if a show went perfectly, nobody would say anything; but after a disaster, he'd hear no end of it. As far as 4e goes, I'm glad that splat book idiocy is limited to just a handful of things. If WE is the only bannable thing in PHB2, I'll call it a job well done.

 

[FireLance]

I wonder if a good way to balance Weapon Expertise would be to prevent you from taking Weapon Focus for the same weapon group. That way, you can choose to have either an attack bonus or a damage bonus with the weapon group, but not both (barring racial feats like Dwarven Weapon Training, Eladrin Soldier, and possibly Goliath Greatweapon Prowess).

Given the existing complaints about the prerequisites and lack of general applicability for Astral Fire, Burning Blizzard, Dark Fury, etc. the same limitation might not need to apply to Implement Expertise.