D&D (2024) Weapon Masteries too Ubiquitous? New Fighter ability suggestion.

TwoSix

Uncomfortably diegetic
I think the main issue is magic weapons....once you have a magic weapon, how likely are you to NOT use it?
Well, depends on the weapon and how many resources you've put into your current feats, right? if you're going full archer, a greatsword +1 wouldn't be enough to swing you.

I don't remember, are masteries level-swappable? That would play a role as well.
 

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Zaukrie

New Publisher
Well, depends on the weapon and how many resources you've put into your current feats, right? if you're going full archer, a greatsword +1 wouldn't be enough to swing you.

I don't remember, are masteries level-swappable? That would play a role as well.
Sure, if you are going full archer, that's different....but then you are pretty much only getting the masteries related to that.....so, again, getting 4 masteries doesn't do much of anything.

Don't get me wrong, I love the IDEA of masteries, not the execution.
 

TwoSix

Uncomfortably diegetic
Sure, if you are going full archer, that's different....but then you are pretty much only getting the masteries related to that.....so, again, getting 4 masteries doesn't do much of anything.

Don't get me wrong, I love the IDEA of masteries, not the execution.
I think they're generally pretty good. I'm just not seeing getting MORE masteries as being a real point of distinction for fighters when the bulk of the other martial classes still get 2. The marginal value for masteries goes down real fast. 1 is very valuable, 2 is pretty good for a lot of concepts, but 3 is eh, and 4+ is in "who cares" territory.
 

FitzTheRuke

Legend
I like basic warlordy actions for the fighter. I think that would be fitting. The fighter used to be the leader of the group.
I agree. They don't have to be the leader of the party as a whole (depending on individual characters in the party and player dynamics) but they should be deferred to when it comes to battlefield tactics, like how everyone will likely defer to the wizard when confronted with a magical artefact, or to the rogue when spotting a complicated trap.

I'm all for the base fighter having Warlord abilities without spell-like healing. (Though I'm personally very fond of the medic feat, which does the job there for me). Those abilities could be amped-up by the Banneret subclass, too!
 

Zaukrie

New Publisher
I agree. They don't have to be the leader of the party as a whole (depending on individual characters in the party and player dynamics) but they should be deferred to when it comes to battlefield tactics, like how everyone will likely defer to the wizard when confronted with a magical artefact, or to the rogue when spotting a complicated trap.

I'm all for the base fighter having Warlord abilities without spell-like healing. (Though I'm personally very fond of the medic feat, which does the job there for me). Those abilities could be amped-up by the Banneret subclass, too!
Truth....the fighter helps others fight better....the Ranger helps others explore better....etc. I'd like that a lot......
 

Chaosmancer

Legend
I had this as an ability that you could do once/short rest, like action surge. But, again, just spitballing - feel free to offer an alternative or improvement!

When I did my Fighter changes to give them some non-combat utility, I made this ability

Practical Knowledge: When not honing your skill with a blade, or caring for your armor, you spend time with people. You listen to the fishmonger, the retired mercenary, the streetsweeper, the pickpocket, and you incorporate their knowledge and knacks into your own view of the world. Pick one of the following options, if one of these does not describe your character, you may work with your DM to craft a similar option by picking four skill checks (skills, tools, or initiative).

Ambush Leader: Stealth, acrobatics, Initiative, and Survival
Commander: Intimidation, Persuasion, Performance, Insight
Tactical Officer: History, Investigation, Insight, Perception
Charlatan: Sleight of Hand, Stealth, Deception, Disguise Kit
Siege-Breaker: Athletics, History, Intimidation, Land Vehicles

A number of times equal to your proficiency modifier per day, you may roll your proficiency die and add it to a check from your list, as you add the know-how you have gathered to your work. You may choose to use this ability after rolling, but before knowing the result.


Part of the conceptual/thematic point of this abilities design was to address the wide-variance of fighter types and offer a way to narrow it down. A tactical officer who pulls out maps and charts and plans assaults has different skills than a man who lived as a bandit in the forest hunting other people.

So, what if you go a similar route? Offer a suite of passive options that are roughly balanced. The fighter picks one after a short rest. So, you could go on High Alert, and everyone gets a bonus to initiative until the next short rest. Or you can Fight for the Cause and get a small bonus to saving throws (very small, like +1). And some of them could be more "active" like an ability that allows the fighter at the start of their turn to allow an ally to move half their speed without provoking opportunity attacks as a reaction. Since you only get one of these, they can be a little stronger, and they offer ways to flavor what sort of fighter you are.
 


Chaosmancer

Legend
This argument is diminished in the face of a magic weapon, though.

By level 7, most fighters could have a +1 weapon (at least), and so the ability is letting you add mastery to th emagic weapon you want to use. Swapping is decidedly less than that.

True, but this gets back to the classical problems. By level 7 your fighter has a method and plan. They aren't going to be suddenly using a mastery they've never used. So, if I have a fighter who has been constantly using a longsword, I'm not exactly expecting to switch over to a magical dagger as my primary weapon, even before masteries. And, additionally, you CAN'T give all masteries to all weapons. In fact, the majority of masteries are only working for specific groups of weapons, like Heavy weapons.

I made a chart when the Masteries first came out to demonstrate this. For example, you cannot put Sap on ANYTHING, and you can only put Graze or Cleave on Heavy Melee weapons. Sure, if you have a PAM warrior who uses a Glaive, giving them a magical Pike is going to mess with them... but there is also no reason to give them a magical pike OTHER than to mess with them. (Or if you are a purist who only rolls for magical weapons and never considers party comp and styles. I'm not getting into that argument, I'm just pointing out that is exactly where this line of thinking is going to end up going)
 

Second wind and Action surge?
For level 1 and 2 that is not bad. I'd say the level 1 fighter is probably the best class you can get. 12 hp. 1d10+1 regen every short rest. Fighting style. Best armor you can have.
IMHO other class can compete...

... when it comes to being tough in single combat. But they have no inherent ability (other than the protection fighting style) to increase party performance and be useful outside combat.
 

Chaosmancer

Legend
Playing Diablo IV gave me some ideas:

Arsenal: You can switch your weapons as part of your attack without restrictions; so with four attacks you could go with ie Halberd trip -> Maul bash -> Maul bash -> dual Scimitars nick -> Bonus Action second Scimitar nick.

This is already basically in the rules, unless there is some nuance I'm missing.

Weaponmaster: Choose 4 weapon types, you can never have disadvantage on attack rolls with those weapons as long as you can see the target. If you attack with Advantage using one of those weapon, roll an extra d20 and take the best result (ala Elven Accuracy).

What is the difference between this and just making that ability true for all weapons? Once you have four weapons that you are particularly awesome at using... you are really never going to use other weapons.

Overwhelm: On your turn, if you hit a creature with a weapon , the following attacks against the same creature using a weapon with the same Mastery as the first hit deal extra damage equals to half you proficiency bonus.

Hmm... that is an interesting thought, might be a bit too strong though.

At low levels... this never happens. At mid levels this can add +1 to a single attack, +1 to three attacks if you action surge. At high levels you could potentially add +3 to seven attacks... which might be too much since that is an extra +21 damage for focus fire.
 

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