Weapon Proficiency: Hobgoblin?!

[Sorren]

Last night we had what I would consider to be the funniest game sessions I've ever ran. It was an Eberron game, and the warforged (1st level barbarian/2nd level artificer), was about to charge into a room full of goblins, hobgoblins, and a couple of dire rats.

However, before he goes in, he Rages, and the wizard casts Enlarge Person on him. His strength at this point is 22 and he is Large.

During the conflict, he decides to pick up one of the hobgoblins which I handled as a grapple check. He succeeds and the goblins is firmly in his grasp. At this point, a goblin tries to charge passed him to get to the wizard. This provokes and attack of opportunity from the warforged, who then swings the hobgoblin at the goblin. Critical! I figure a hobgoblin being weilded as weapon would deal about 1d6 damage. Regardless, the impact kills both the hobgoblin and goblin.

Then the warforged, still holding the hobgoblin's corpse, smashes another hobgoblin, (with the aid of an action point) killing him as well.

It was awesome. Truely a sight to behold.

But I wonder if I handled the rules correctly. What do you guys think? What does it take to use a living being as a weapon? What are the effects?

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

I think there's a -4 penalty for improvised weapons (or, at least, a -4 penalty for not being proficient); maybe both (is a hobgoblin considered a martial or a simple weapon ).

Then it just depends on Str. I'm assuming he had the necessary Str to throw the hobgob around like a rag doll. That might still require grapple checks each round to maintain the hold (assuming the hobgob is conscious).

Btw, there's a feat (from Complete Warrior?) called Improvised Weapon that lets characters use non-traditional weapons.

 

[Darklone]

Races of Stone has feats to throw allies or enemies.

 

[Sorren]

That's what I did. Every round, the hobgoblin got to make a grapple check to escape (just like a normal grapple) and he was treated as an improvised huge weapon (-4 to hit, requires two hands for a large creature).

Can someone elaborate on what's in Races of Stone?

 

[Nail]

Not to be a wet blanket (damp rag? ) or anything, but: anything a PC can do, a monster can do better.

Can monsters do this to PCs? If so, how?

 

[Nail]

Although I'm sure this could be a feat, let's try to do this "within the existing rules" if possible.

Besides: how many PCs/NPCs currently have the about-to-be-designed feat: "Use Enemy as a Weapon"?

 

[Sorren]

Not to be a wet blanket (damp rag? ) or anything, but: anything a PC can do, a monster can do better.

Can monsters do this to PCs? If so, how?

Yes they can. Using the same rules.

 

[Someone]

The closest thing in the rules is the Snatch movement that dragons can get with a feat and some other monsters (the Roc, IIRC) have.

Myself, I´d impose a penalty on the grapple check for the wielding character for having to use only the hands and not being wrestling with the character being wielded (there´s a penalty of -20 for using only "one appendage" to conduct the grapple, so I´d go with that penalty and a bonus of +4 or +6 for using an extra hand), then allow the wielding character to make an attack with the wielded creature if he succeeds in a grapple check.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Well, here's a quick summary of "What's wrong with this picture."

However, before he goes in, he Rages, and the wizard casts Enlarge Person on him. His strength at this point is 22 and he is Large.

The spell Enlarge Person has a target entry of "One Humanoid Creature."

Warforged are Constructs, subtype Living, and therefore are not valid targets for the Enlarge Person spell.

During the conflict, he decides to pick up one of the hobgoblins which I handled as a grapple check.

Grabbing an opponent = [Presuming a Melee Touch Attack] + Grapple Check. Good.

I assume he provoked an Attack of Opportunity for doing so? Or does he have the Improved Grapple feat?

At this point, a goblin tries to charge passed him to get to the wizard. This provokes and attack of opportunity from the warforged, who then swings the hobgoblin at the goblin.

A creature who is grappling does not threaten any squares, and thus is not allowed to make Attacks of Opportunity.

However, if you wish to expand the rule from Improved Grab - a monster trait - you can act as if you were not grappled if you succeed at a grapple check with a -20 penalty.

If the warforged was able to succeed at such a check, I'd allow him the AoO. If he is unable to make such a check, then he's still busy wrestling with the hobgoblin.

But I wonder if I handled the rules correctly. What do you guys think?

Generally, no, you didn't. But ...

It was awesome. Truely a sight to behold.

THIS is the important part.

Your players had fun, you probably had a great deal of fun describing the carnage, it was a memorable encounter, and your players will still be talking about it in 6 months.

If there was a little bit of rules fudging to make the combat more cinematic, then who cares, really, so long as everyone was having a good time and it didn't get too egregiously out of hand?

I'd make sure to point out that, in the future, Enlarge Person won't work on a warforged, however.

 

[Sorren]

Thanks. All good points. Now I have to figure out how to fix this for the future without changing the past too much.

New Spell: Enlarge Construct works exactly like enlarge person, but only works on constructs (or I may make it an artificer's infusion, which can't actually be made into a potion). We'll say he had a potion of Enlarge Construct instead of having the spell cast on him.

The attack of opportunity was improbable, but not impossible. It worked this time, but probably won't ever again. (-20 penalty from now on)