Weapon Upgrade Idea...

[yazton]

I have an idea I have been tossing around and I was hoping someone here could help. In my D&D game I want to allow players to upgrade their weapons (and anything else theat gives a numerical bonus) by giving the weapons levels. Now my idea is to still give all the XP to the players, but allow them to transfer some of thier XP to their weapon or chosen item. The higher level the weapon gets the more powerful it becomes. As well as that players are giving their XP to it, so it is players choice. My idea is to make all weapons Level 0, and if they put 100xp into it it will become a level 1 weapon and gain the masterwork template (If they buy it Masterwork it is already lvl 1). Then I was going to use the same xp chart as players get for weapon levels. So a level 2 weapon would be a Magic weapon with either a +1 (aka sword +1) or a masterwork with properties, like flame or whatever. Do any of you have any ideas I can use on this?



Thanks,
Yazton

 

[Bryon_Soulweaver]

I like it, except the magic part. I think they would need it to be somewhat magical to start gaining/having magical properties though. But the weapon upgrade, a level 0 greatsword would be normal. A level 1 greatsword would have barbs or thorns, or something like that. A level 2 greatsword would be masterwork plus thorns or barbs plus hooks and make the weapon curve or make the weapon do more damage. I dont know, just throwing ideas around with this idea

 

[Thondor]

Dragon magazine had an article about leveled items awhile back using the concept of PC's directly imputing Xp into weapons but when it was and how relavent. I know it only seemed to give specific item progression and never established a system to level all items. No the special item was a leveled item.
Hmmm. Well the system you proposed seems fairly straight forward to elaborate on it:

Characters can only imbue(level) weapons with power(Xp) every other level (2,4,6 . . . or should it start at level 3?).
The PC must have been using this weapon as a primary form of attack for the duration of the two levels. ( i.e. it can't be the weapon that they just picked up nor should it be the dagger that the fighter never uses)
The cost of leveling a weapon is 10% of the Characters current Xp gain to next level (meaning for a 2nd level character 200xp not 300xp) For special benefits that cost +2 or more enhancement the PC pays the corrisponding percent (+2=20%, +3=30% . . .
For anything above +1 a PC cannot imbue that weapon and his next imbueing level. Although he could imbue another weapon.
The weapon must begin as at least masterwork.
The PC must hold an attunement cerimony be for he can ever imbue a weapon. ( Assign a cost for candles and such and find a priest or mage to help) The PC must spend Sunset to sunrise with the weapon, no interaction with others or the cerimony must begin again. Moreover it requires the Character to stay awake the entire night requiring a DC 8 Fort save followed by a DC 10 will save and then a DC 12 fort save.
To imbue the weapon with power a character must spend 4 hours with the weapon with no interaction with others at a specific time (sunrise, sunset, midnight, noon, full moon, equinoxes . . .) or place. Failure means the 4 hours was wasted but can be attempted again. At a success the Xp is expended.


I really have little idea how balanced the above would be. And I personally don't have a problem with having level dependant items, Items that increseas with power as the Character does - However these are Design by the DM for one and moreover are usually slightly underpowered then normal. If the PC want's a spiked chain that does exactly this that and the other thing then I think the above is a satifactory way to make it work.

 

[Jack Simth]

This actually goes under the house rules forum, but hey....

Let's see.... compare item XP to crafting XP+Money, starting with a masterwork Sword:

Base: Craft: 0 xp, 0 gp; level: 0 xp, 0 gp.
+1: Craft: 80 xp, 1000 gp; level: 100 xp, 0 gp.
+2: Craft: 320 xp, 4000 gp; level: 300 xp, 0 gp.
+3: Craft: 720 xp, 9000 gp; level: 600 xp, 0 gp.
+4: Craft: 1280 xp, 16000 gp; level: 1000 xp, 0 gp.
+5: Craft: 2000 xp, 25000 gp; level: 1500 xp, 0 gp.
Note that, for weapons, after +1 it is cheaper in all ways to give the sword xp rather than enchanting it with a +100/+200/+300 progression.


Then starting with a Masterwork Armor:
Base: Craft: 0 xp, 0 gp; level: 0 xp, 0 gp.
+1: Craft: 40 xp, 500 gp; level: 100 xp, 0 gp.
+2: Craft: 160 xp, 2000 gp; level: 300 xp, 0 gp.
+3: Craft: 360 xp, 4500 gp; level: 600 xp, 0 gp.
+4: Craft: 640 xp, 8000 gp; level: 1000 xp, 0 gp.
+5: Craft: 1000 xp, 12500 gp; level: 1500 xp, 0 gp.

It may need a bit of tweaking - say, instead of following the basic character progression, use twice the xp needed to enchant the effect (permitting spellcasters to burn gp in lieu of some xp, but permitting fighters to pay for their own enchanting) but shouldn't be too terribly unbalancing.

 

[Thondor]

Well for a start I've always had trouble with the cost being so high in gp. Magic weapons arn't available on the open market IMC anyway so I generally cut the gold count in at least half and then I require that the PC aquire something that further lessens the cost. A black dragons scales for an item that provides acid resistance, a frostworms blood to coat the icy burst sword or simply journeying to aquire a rare type of stone or wood.
Really the best thing about this is that it turns making magic items into an adventure

 

[Thondor]

I hope Yazton doesn't mind that i'm running away with his idea.
If you made it so that the character can only imbue weapons at 5th level same as Craft Arms and Armour feat I think this would solve the inequality. (in fact I think it's over kill)
All enhancements individual +1 enhacements cost 10% of XP at your level therefor:
darn I whish I had my books I can't be sure of any of this I believe a +1 enhacement would then cost 600Xp where it cost 80xp+ 1000gp to the crafter

if someone could figure this out I'd appreciat it.

 

[Nazerel]

There's always the Item Familiar variant rules in Unearthed Arcana, though you'd need to start with an existing magic item (it doesn't have to be a weapon) of at least 2,000 gp value and requires a feat to be taken (minimum character level 3).

 

[moritheil]

Hyp is on record as suggesting that intelligent magic items be allowed to level.

 

[yazton]

Weapon Upgrade idea...

Hmm, well I am currently running Monte Cooks Arcana Evolved campain. In there the spikes you mentioned Bryon_Soulweaver is called Dire and players can buy Dire weapons or masterwork weapons, or Dire masterwork weapons if they can afford it. Dire gives +1 to damage and it is an exotic weapon, meaning you need to take a feat just to use a weapon that is Dire (otherwise you will hurt yourself using it rather then your enemy).
Please Thondor, run with it. If WE can figure out a way to make this work I will be using it. Like in my campain, I had the players choose a weapon or armor to be his Hierloom item given to him by his parents. The only thing the player knew about this weapon was that is was Masterwork. Yes I gave all my lvl 1 characters a Masterwork weapon (they had to pay for the item normally and I gave them the Masterwork template free (value of 300 GP)). Now if the player does something really cool, or has an in character neat idea with the weapon, I adjudicated that it would "Wake Up" and remember some of its lost abilities. Like one player who threw her Heirloom Rapier at a Hippogriff, sinking it into its flesh. Then the Hippogriff took enough damage to flee. So it flew away with her Heirloom MW Rapier in it. As character she was so distraught about losing her familys Rapier (and roloplayed it) I decided to allow it to "Wake Up". As she was roleplaying her loss of the Rapier she heard a whizzing noise and looked up in time to see her Rapier fly directly into her hand. Now it registers as a magical weapon but it is still Masterwork and has the ability to recall to her owners hand at command from any distance. However I would like to figure out a system that I can give players to allow them to lvl them up themselves. Personally when players do something cool with their heirloom item I will allow more features to "Wake Up".
Item Familiar feat? I didnt think about that, let me grab my book and see what that is.
Hyp thats not a bad idea. If an item is intelligent it should level itself up (taking a share of XP in wich it was used (which hurts all party members))
Thank you for the good ideas, please keep them coming.
Yazton

 

[Thondor]

Well I have for a long time contemplated doing similar things with "Heirloom items" (lovely name that)
For awakening items option a) character performs and awakening cermony similar to my atunement ceremony (discribed above) costing 10% of the characters current Xp. (that may be way to sever) At wich point the item gains one magical feature.
B) The item is put in a similar situation as to the items powers i.e. a character with a flaming sword fights with a frostworm. A character with a bane weapon fights a bane creature with twice the HD of the character. Holy sword an undead or evil outsider. An item with resistance is attacked by it's energy type by at least 5 damage dices. A falling character only in a situation of very possible death discovers that he has a ring of featherfall.
The character will receive no Xp for these encounters

I think the system I worked out for PC's leveling items would work I just can't establish wether it's at all balanced with Craft Magic . . . costs.