Weapon Upgrade Idea...

[yennico]

I like the idea of leveling weapons or magical items, but if a fighter can use a weapon for a long time, pay xps to improve the masterwork weapon to a magical weapon, nobody really needs the feat craft weapons and arms.
If a fighter can create own his permanent magical weapon it reduces the need of spells like GMW, Magic Weapon etc.

1.) I would limit the bonus of creation of a magical weapon by a crememony by a fighter to a maximum of a bonus of a GMW spell of a caster of the same level of the fighter -1
A fighter level 9 can only create his own +2 weapon.

2.) A fighter can only create a magical weapon with a bonus and not special properties like flaming burst, returning, etc. For creating a magical weapons with special properties the fighter needs the feat craft weapons and arms and he must use the wepon on several times in a situation apporbiate to the special property (e.g. returning ability for an battleaxe, the fighter must have killed several enemies by throwing his axe.)

 

[Odysseus]

I've always liked the idea the characters could use craft skill to create magic weapons.
If you combine that with the weapon level idea. Say the level of weapon defines the dc for the craft roll to make it.

 

[yennico]

I've always liked the idea the characters could use craft skill to create magic weapons.
If you combine that with the weapon level idea. Say the level of weapon defines the dc for the craft roll to make it.

IMHO with the craft skill you can craft weapons which can only infused with magic with the feat: craft arms and armor.
If you need only the craft skill to craft magical weapons no one needs the feat: craft arms and armor and every blacksmith with a high craft skill can craft magical weapons.

 

[Odysseus]

If you need only the craft skill to craft magical weapons no one needs the feat: craft arms and armor and every blacksmith with a high craft skill can craft magical weapons.

Yep , thats the idea.

 

[Aristotle]

I'm doing something similar in my campaign setting with a rework of "mastercraft", the Dragon article on leveled items, and the variants in Unearthed Arcana.

Enhancement bonuses on weapons and armor are no longer magical in nature. They are increasingly more difficult and expensive levels of mastercrafting. A +1 sword is a sword of exceptional quality, while a +5 sword is the work of a true master and the product of supperior materials. Masterwork costs both money and experience. I'm considering extending this masterwork system to everything (a masterwork +2 book on Heraldry would be so excellently written as to give a +2 bonus on skill checks dealin with Heraldry).

Magical effects are divided. Those that are blatantly (flashy) magic are Arcane Enhancements (An "arcane item" has one or more arcane enhancements). Those that aren't so flashy are Legendary Enhancements (a "legendary item" has one or more legendary enhancements). An item can have both arcane and legendary enhancements. The enhancements have the same point costs that they do under the normal system.

Arcane Enhancements can only be added by a spellcaster. They are useable by anyone who wields the item and knows how to activate the arcane enhancements (if they require activation). There are fewer of these.

Legendary Enhancements are added by the wielder. The XP and point cost of these enhancements varies on who can make use of them. Some legendary items can be used only by the original wielder (lowest cost), some can be used by reincarnations of the wielder, others can be used by any blood relative, and some are said to be useable by anyone (highest cost). Most of the available enhancements are legendary.

An item can not have more than 10 points worth of Arcane and/or Legendary enhancements. The second 5 points worth have extremely high monetary and XP costs compared to the first 5 (they are essentially epic level items without the 'epic' tag).

 

[yazton]

Well I have for a long time contemplated doing similar things with "Heirloom items" (lovely name that)
For awakening items option a) character performs and awakening cermony similar to my atunement ceremony (discribed above) costing 10% of the characters current Xp. (that may be way to sever) At wich point the item gains one magical feature.
B) The item is put in a similar situation as to the items powers i.e. a character with a flaming sword fights with a frostworm. A character with a bane weapon fights a bane creature with twice the HD of the character. Holy sword an undead or evil outsider. An item with resistance is attacked by it's energy type by at least 5 damage dices. A falling character only in a situation of very possible death discovers that he has a ring of featherfall.
The character will receive no Xp for these encounters

I think the system I worked out for PC's leveling items would work I just can't establish wether it's at all balanced with Craft Magic . . . costs.

That is kind of what my idea is. If the characters can find a way in game to roleplay it and they spend whatever XP and money cost I figure out, then it will upgrade only in roleplsy. I like those options. As for option A) I would use that for any new item they pick up. Option B) is kind of my idea as above.

Aristotle; I like that idea. You said that was from a Dragon article? Can you rmember which one? I'd like to take a look at it. That sounds like a workable system they thought up. How do you work the 10 points though? does some things cost more then others, such as holy costs more then flaming, ect.? That sounds awesome. I would like to use your idea Aristotle if you dont mind.

Mastercraft, I like that title too.

Thanks for the ideas. Please keep them coming. I am trying to take all your ideas and make a system that I think will work (if nothing else, then in my campain).

Yazton

 

[Aristotle]

The article was on "leveled items". I found part of it online a while back, but don't have it anymore (I really wish they would put up some sort of article repository for Dragon, where you pay for access and you get all of the articles except for the past 12 months worth).

Feel free to use what I've posted (why I posted it). Just tack on XP and Gold costs.

For Arcane Enhancements I would use the standard slot costs for things like flaming, fiery burst, and so on. Legendary would work a little different. You would jack up the base costs, and then adjust them based on who could use those properties of the weapon.

(example of how I might set it up)
wielder only: -3
bloodline: -2
race/culture: -1
everyone: 0

So a "Keen" ability might cost 4 slots if anybody who picks up the weapon can use it, 3 if only elves can use it, 2 if only the wielder's family can use it, and 1 if only the wielder himself can use it. The concept is still highly experimental. Something I am working on for my homebrew. Use any of it you like!

 

[warderbrad]

wielder only: -3
bloodline: -2
race/culture: -1
everyone: 0

So a "Keen" ability might cost 4 slots if anybody who picks up the weapon can use it, 3 if only elves can use it, 2 if only the wielder's family can use it, and 1 if only the wielder himself can use it. The concept is still highly experimental. Something I am working on for my homebrew. Use any of it you like!

Are you placeing a min cost of 1 slot or if it is restricted enough can the enchantment be free? I can see that being abused.

 

[Aristotle]

It would have to have a minimum of one slot.

Alternatively, now that I think about it, it may be better to leave the slots 'as is' and have the difference in cost for abilities able to be used by larger groups reflected in the XP costs instead. Or a cross between the two. Either way I'd prefer to keep money out of the equation for Legendary Enhancements.

The system was conceived after thinking of legendary items from various stories where a sword or shield was told to have extraordinary properties even though it wasn't obviously magical. As if just by being wielded by a great warrior (or whatever) were enough to gradually make his tools as legendary as he was (although they often only function in that way for him or his heirs in such stories).

 

[yazton]

Hmm.. Aristotle when I did a search of Dragon magazines website, all it gave me was Mastercraft anthology legends and lairs book.
This is the link to it.
http://paizo.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/Store.woa/3/wa/browse?path=store/brand/d20System/fantasyFlightGames/v5748btpy75e4&wosid=UXjwwS5XGbymebtN0PqDfg

Is this what you meant? or was it an actual article. I cant find any more referances to it on thier website.


Hmm, ok I like the 10 slots and the 5 and 5. But how do you figure out how many slots power X will take. and of course subtract for restrictions you place on it. Your example showed Keen costing 4 slots (out of 10 possible). So you would assign powers a 1-10 slot based on how powerful it was. So A Holy Avenger has used all 10 slots, 5 for being a +5 and the other 5 for Holy, (what else does it have I dont have my books handy)? How do you determine what slot cost a ability will have? You mentioned XP cost rather then gold or both. How would you figure that out? the same XP cost as someone who can craft the weapon would have to pay to make it? And if anyone can craft an item up to legendary why would you not have a gold cost associated with it?
I would suggest that the first 5 levels of Legendary cant have restrictions on it it must be for anyone, that would reflect that it is crafted by a true master not by a wizard. as for the next 5 slots (arcane slots) Those I would allow restrictions on. Such as a +5 Holy Avenger would have a slot cost of 8 modified by -3 (for 1 class only) making it the second 5. Artifacts of course would break this rule (Dm make artifacts anything he/she wants).
You said standard slot costs for Flaming, ect. What would you say are standard slot costs? What does each ability cost? I know its up to each DM, but maybe a list to give DMs an idea of how powerful something is would help. Like is KEEN more powerful then BANE or FLAMING? ect.