Weapons of Legacy: does anyone have it yet?
- Thread starter monkeynova
- Start date
Truth Seeker
Adventurer
Well, it is now in my hands, will say something later, right now at work.
Nightfall
Sage of the Scarred Lands
Crothy,
If I bought the book, I'd already review it.
But that said consider yourself on my "Better get Crothy something and maybe he'll let me catch up to him!" deal.
Truth,
Just let me know by Monday okay? I say monday because I plan on being dead to the world between tonight and Sunday afternoon/Monday morning.
If I bought the book, I'd already review it.
But that said consider yourself on my "Better get Crothy something and maybe he'll let me catch up to him!" deal.
Truth,
Just let me know by Monday okay? I say monday because I plan on being dead to the world between tonight and Sunday afternoon/Monday morning.
I picked up the book today. They're very much like Covenant items from Midnight, but instead of them naturally gaining power, the PC needs to learn about the history of the weapon, and conduct certain rituals or do certain things to awaken the powers.
It's actually very cool in concept. It's a good way to have a campaign where the PCs aren't discarding that old +1 sword like a broken toaster oven when something better comes along. Each item has a story, which is good as it's more reminiscent of earlier versions of the game where magic items were actually special, instead of being a regular commodity, and each one was somewhat unique.
The rituals aren't all about pouring magic oils on it and chanting over a brazier, etc. Sometimes, it's doing something with the item that harkens back to what its original user did with it, or bathing it in a sacred pool for a day, going to the place where the hero who used to own it died and properly interring his bones, and various things like this.
As to the balance/mechanics, I can't really say as I'm still going through the book. But it seems neat, and I'm already thinking of ways to introduce them into the game.
It makes me think a bit of Memory, Sorry, and Thorn, when Simon and a bunch of the servants of Prince Josua were reading through the history of the sword Thorn....where it had been, what had been done with it, and finding that it was more than just an ordinary sword. Then needing to head up north into a dangerous locale to find it, etc. The blade meant something. It was famous not only because of who used it, but what it had been through.
Fully powered, these items of legacy seem like a step between magic items, and artifacts. Unlike those two, often there are negatives to somewhat counteract the benefits the item brings.
Banshee
It's actually very cool in concept. It's a good way to have a campaign where the PCs aren't discarding that old +1 sword like a broken toaster oven when something better comes along. Each item has a story, which is good as it's more reminiscent of earlier versions of the game where magic items were actually special, instead of being a regular commodity, and each one was somewhat unique.
The rituals aren't all about pouring magic oils on it and chanting over a brazier, etc. Sometimes, it's doing something with the item that harkens back to what its original user did with it, or bathing it in a sacred pool for a day, going to the place where the hero who used to own it died and properly interring his bones, and various things like this.
As to the balance/mechanics, I can't really say as I'm still going through the book. But it seems neat, and I'm already thinking of ways to introduce them into the game.
It makes me think a bit of Memory, Sorry, and Thorn, when Simon and a bunch of the servants of Prince Josua were reading through the history of the sword Thorn....where it had been, what had been done with it, and finding that it was more than just an ordinary sword. Then needing to head up north into a dangerous locale to find it, etc. The blade meant something. It was famous not only because of who used it, but what it had been through.
Fully powered, these items of legacy seem like a step between magic items, and artifacts. Unlike those two, often there are negatives to somewhat counteract the benefits the item brings.
Banshee
Laman Stahros
First Post
I have it.
The negatives are not all that bad. According to page 186, if the penalty is a power point loss, spell slot loss, hit point loss, or skill point loss, then it is a cumulative loss, while penalties on attacks, saves, caster level, manifester level, and skill checks shown are maximums.
The template for monster of legacy is kinda bare. The creature gains a small number of special attacks/special qualities and a minor CR increase and becomes "inappropriate for PC play".
The holy avenger and staff of power are wrote up as legacy items. (Yes!) All in all, I like it so far.
The negatives are not all that bad. According to page 186, if the penalty is a power point loss, spell slot loss, hit point loss, or skill point loss, then it is a cumulative loss, while penalties on attacks, saves, caster level, manifester level, and skill checks shown are maximums.
The template for monster of legacy is kinda bare. The creature gains a small number of special attacks/special qualities and a minor CR increase and becomes "inappropriate for PC play".
The holy avenger and staff of power are wrote up as legacy items. (Yes!) All in all, I like it so far.
cignus_pfaccari
First Post
I wanted to like it.
I looked at it in the store for about 10 minutes, and put it down.
I'm sorry, I just can't see any reason that I would ever want to use any item of legacy. Not only do the penalties often outweigh any benefits, but they don't even make sense.
If they're there to counterbalance you getting an ability earlier than normal...perhaps having a pseudo negative level or two until I get big enough to use it? That means I can put it down and not have to worry about it.
Or, instead, keep the rituals, and just let the character spend gobs of XP on it. Sure, that'll slow down advancement, but I can live with that, and just make sure the abilities aren't too insane.
Oy.
Brad
I looked at it in the store for about 10 minutes, and put it down.
I'm sorry, I just can't see any reason that I would ever want to use any item of legacy. Not only do the penalties often outweigh any benefits, but they don't even make sense.
If they're there to counterbalance you getting an ability earlier than normal...perhaps having a pseudo negative level or two until I get big enough to use it? That means I can put it down and not have to worry about it.
Or, instead, keep the rituals, and just let the character spend gobs of XP on it. Sure, that'll slow down advancement, but I can live with that, and just make sure the abilities aren't too insane.
Oy.
Brad
cignus_pfaccari said:
You know, I gotta wonder many other folks feel it's ironic that on the one hand we have folks excited over Malhavoc's Iron Heroes because it's a world where it's your character's strength and skill that ultimately matters, not his equipment, and then in stark contrast we have WotC putting out Weapons of Legacy.
WoL certainly sounds like it epitomizes one of the worst aspects of D&D...it's all about the bling-bling. Doesn't matter if you're a rugged, macho barbarian or a non-materialistic ranger, you're decked out in gem-studded rings and gold necklaces and garish bracelets. And in this case the bling doesn't just diminish the character in a figurative sense, it does so literally.
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Felon said:
That's a valid point. 3E *is* too much about the "bling bling", IMO. This is one thing that no matter how much people criticize 2E, I think they got right. Back then, it was about the character, their abilities, their history, etc. Not about their magic sword. Items were far less common. Now PCs are supposed to have more items than they can carry.
However. I think that what Weapons of Legacy is doing, is to make items special again. This does come with a power-up of sorts, but it's also getting games back to a point where if you have an item, it's special. It was made by somebody, for some purpose, and that wasn't just to be able to sell it for gp. I haven't finished going through it, because I also picked up Five Nations, and I'm finding that a more interesting book.
In any case, these rules are all optional. There have been Dragon magazine articles that covered the exact same topic....items that increase in power as the character does, giving the PCs to regard their items differently from disposable cameras. This book is just codifying those rules and making them available to all players, not just subscribers of Dragon.
Banshee
Mouseferatu
Hero
Apologies for the hijack, but I don't believe this is true. If you go back through treasure tables, published modules, etc., I truly believe you'll find that the average quantity of magic items has not changed.
What's changed is that the game now overtly assumes a certain level of magic items, making it a bit more difficult for individual DMs to tailor the amount down, if doing so suits their own tastes. And it's certainly made it easier for PCs to create/determine their own. But comparing the games as written and published, I think the magic item quantities were a lot closer than people realize.
