Web Spell Questions

[Mistwell]

From the SRD for the spell Web:

Web creates a many-layered mass of strong, sticky strands. These strands trap those caught in them. The strands are similar to spider webs but far larger and tougher. These masses must be anchored to two or more solid and diametrically opposed points or else the web collapses upon itself and disappears. Creatures caught within a web become entangled among the gluey fibers. Attacking a creature in a web won’t cause you to become entangled.
Anyone in the effect’s area when the spell is cast must make a Reflex save. If this save succeeds, the creature is entangled, but not prevented from moving, though moving is more difficult than normal for being entangled (see below). If the save fails, the creature is entangled and can’t move from its space, but can break loose by spending 1 round and making a DC 20 Strength check or a DC 25 Escape Artist check. Once loose (either by making the initial Reflex save or a later Strength check or Escape Artist check), a creature remains entangled, but may move through the web very slowly. Each round devoted to moving allows the creature to make a new Strength check or Escape Artist check. The creature moves 5 feet for each full 5 points by which the check result exceeds 10.
If you have at least 5 feet of web between you and an opponent, it provides cover. If you have at least 20 feet of web between you, it provides total cover.
The strands of a web spell are flammable. A magic flaming sword can slash them away as easily as a hand brushes away cobwebs. Any fire can set the webs alight and burn away 5 square feet in 1 round. All creatures within flaming webs take 2d4 points of fire damage from the flames.

and from the SRD for the condition known as Entangled:

Entangled: The character is ensnared. Being entangled impedes movement, but does not entirely prevent it unless the bonds are anchored to an immobile object or tethered by an opposing force. An entangled creature moves at half speed, cannot run or charge, and takes a –2 penalty on all attack rolls and a –4 penalty to Dexterity. An entangled character who attempts to cast a spell must make a Concentration check (DC 15 + the spell’s level) or lose the spell.

Questions:

1) If a person is caught in a web, do they suffer from the condition of entangled AND the conditions of the Web spell? In other words, the condition of entangled imposes things like half-speed movement, casting difficulties, and attack and dex penalties; while the spell imposes a restriction on movement of a round devoted to moving + Strength check or Escape Artist check = moving only 5 feet for each full 5 points by which the check result exceeds 10 (but still at half speed from the entangled condition)?

2) What is meant by "Each round devoted to moving" in the web spell description? Does this mean you must take a Full Round Action to move, and can do nothing other than attempting to move that round if you are trying to move at all?

3) Assume you are on the edge of a web (the square next to you is web free), and caught in that web. You are not immobile, just entangled, having made a prior saving throw. You make a strength check to move, and you beat the check by 10 (so you can move 10 feet this round through webbing). Can you still only move 10 feet total this round, even though you are moving into a square that is web-free? Would the answer change if you only beat the check by 5? Would the answer change if you started with 5 feet of web between you and a web-free space?

4) Assume you have a speed of 30, and spend 20 of that 30 moving freely in web-free spaces until you reach the edge of a web. You want to enter the web. Can you enter it that turn? If so, do you make a strength or escape artist check to enter the first 5 foot square of the web? Can you move more than 5 feet into the web on that round, if you make a sufficient strength or escape artist check that round?

Thanks in advance for your answers and analysis.

 

[Diirk]

1) You suffer both the spell effects and the entangled condition effects BUT the spell effects (slower movement) override the default entangled movement restrictions, they don't add on to them.

2) Yep, exactly.

3) I'd probably take the ratio of unused movement they have left and let them move that much of their normal movement. I wouldn't let them do anything other than move tho, otherwise the round wouldn't be 'devoted to movement' and they couldn't have gotten out of the web in the first place

4) You can move into the web, but not further than the first webbed square, imo... at that point you become entangled and you've already spent your turn and thus can't perform your check until your next turn.

 

[Mistwell]

Thanks for the reply (more appreciated).

One question. You said:

3) I'd probably take the ratio of unused movement they have left and let them move that much of their normal movement. I wouldn't let them do anything other than move tho, otherwise the round wouldn't be 'devoted to movement' and they couldn't have gotten out of the web in the first place

By ratio, do you mean that if for example I had a 30 move speed, and I beat the DC to move in web by 10 (allowing 10 feet of movement in web), and I only needed to move 5 feet to exit the web (which is 50% of my move based on the strength/escape check I rolled), then in your intepretation I could continue to move 15 feet (50% of my move speed)?

 

[azhrei_fje]

I'm not Diirk ("although I play one on TV"), but I agree with his reasoning on all four points. Because of that, I feel confident that I can answer your question with "yes". Whatever the allowed movement would have been inside the web is their maximum movement for the turn. If they exit the web before using it all, calculate the percentage they used and allow them the remaining movement at their normal speed. So in your example, they moved 5 feet (50% of their movement), which means upon exiting the web they still have 50% left. If their movement was 50 feet (a fast monk with boots of striding, for example), they would have 25 feet of movement left.

 

[Diirk]

By ratio, do you mean that if for example I had a 30 move speed, and I beat the DC to move in web by 10 (allowing 10 feet of movement in web), and I only needed to move 5 feet to exit the web (which is 50% of my move based on the strength/escape check I rolled), then in your intepretation I could continue to move 15 feet (50% of my move speed)?

Yeah, thats exactly it. Note that that isn't rules based at all, it just feels like the best way to handle it on the spur of the moment.

 

[Quidam]

the dm

I'm the DM of the campaign in question, and I asked about Web the night after we played. That thread was mostly about withdrawing and tumbling and can be found here:

http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=129274

1) If a person is caught in a web, do they suffer from the condition of entangled AND the conditions of the Web spell? In other words, the condition of entangled imposes things like half-speed movement, casting difficulties, and attack and dex penalties; while the spell imposes a restriction on movement of a round devoted to moving + Strength check or Escape Artist check = moving only 5 feet for each full 5 points by which the check result exceeds 10 (but still at half speed from the entangled condition)?

As others have said, both the condition and the other effects of the spell are suffered. Considering how many other spells cause conditions in addition to their other effects, it seems fairly clear to me.

2) What is meant by "Each round devoted to moving" in the web spell description? Does this mean you must take a Full Round Action to move, and can do nothing other than attempting to move that round if you are trying to move at all?

In my opinion, one must take a special full round action involving either tearing away at webs (the Str check) or wiggling through them (Escape Artist). While you do move (you hope) I do not treat it as a normal 'move action' and therefore, while it takes a full round and you do move, you cannot withdraw while entangled in a web and you cannot tumble.

Note just being entangled does not preclude withdrawing, as, though your movement speed is reduced, you can take normal move actions.

Also note that the cover provided by the web protects from AoO's of those more than 5' away- foes with reach.

3) Assume you are on the edge of a web (the square next to you is web free), and caught in that web. You are not immobile, just entangled, having made a prior saving throw. You make a strength check to move, and you beat the check by 10 (so you can move 10 feet this round through webbing). Can you still only move 10 feet total this round, even though you are moving into a square that is web-free? Would the answer change if you only beat the check by 5? Would the answer change if you started with 5 feet of web between you and a web-free space?

4) Assume you have a speed of 30, and spend 20 of that 30 moving freely in web-free spaces until you reach the edge of a web. You want to enter the web. Can you enter it that turn? If so, do you make a strength or escape artist check to enter the first 5 foot square of the web? Can you move more than 5 feet into the web on that round, if you make a sufficient strength or escape artist check that round?

I thinik by a strict interpretation of the RAW, once you got out of the web you'd no longer be able to move as you are executing a full-round action to move through webbing and the rules for that action no longer apply once you leave the webbing. But you already used a full round action to move through the webbing at all.

In our game I'm willing to house-rule a more lenient interpretation- even more lenient than the previous posters suggest. I would say that if you're on the edge of the web and you beat the DC by 10, you'd move out of the web (using 1/3 of your entangled movement of 15) then you'd have 2/3 of your movement left. You'd then be able to move 20'. I would consider the max movement set by the DC met only applies while in the web itself. It does not change your movement speed- being entangled does. Hope that makes sense.

 

[Mistwell]

I thinik by a strict interpretation of the RAW, once you got out of the web you'd no longer be able to move as you are executing a full-round action to move through webbing and the rules for that action no longer apply once you leave the webbing. But you already used a full round action to move through the webbing at all.

I don't think that would work, as by that ruling you would move MORE if you stayed in the web than if you exited the web. I'd think that the worst case senario for RAW would be that you can continue moving at the speed dictated by your strength or escape artist check (so if you beat the DC by 10 meaning you can move 10 feet in web, you can therefore move 10 feet total whether you are inside or outside the web). Otherwise you have the contradictory senario of someone trying to stay IN the web to move that turn, and avoiding the non-webbed spaces, so that they can get the maximum distance possible that round.

In our game I'm willing to house-rule a more lenient interpretation- even more lenient than the previous posters suggest. I would say that if you're on the edge of the web and you beat the DC by 10, you'd move out of the web (using 1/3 of your entangled movement of 15) then you'd have 2/3 of your movement left. You'd then be able to move 20'. I would consider the max movement set by the DC met only applies while in the web itself. It does not change your movement speed- being entangled does. Hope that makes sense.

That makes sense to me.

As for the withdraw action and tumbling while in web, I had actually forgotten that those issues arose during the game.

I still contend that you can use the withdraw action while in web, just at a very reduced speed. In addition, you should be able to tumble in the web, also at the reduced speed, and with approporiate circumstance penalties. You should be able to do ANY move action as a full round action at a reduced speed and with appropriate circumstance penalities while in a web. The "special" part of the movement is inherant already in the requirement that you make a check to move, and your movement is severely restricted as to distance, and you suffer the listed penalties of both the spell and the condition known as entangled. That is how all other environmental conditions and barriers work in the game, and I don't see why a special type of movement action has to be created just for this particular spell.

Adding a special kind of movement action isn't generally something WOTC does with the rules in any other place I can think of, nor is it listed on any of the "types of actions" charts (not even third party charts). It might not make as much sense from a realistic standpoint...then again, facing in all directions at all times doesn't make a huge amount of sense either. But, for the simplicity that exists in the rules, I think the intent is to not create a special kind of move action just for this particular spell. Down that road lays the overly-complete rules-set of GURPS.

 

[Mistwell]

More Web spell questions. For this set of questions, assume a PC is in a corridor next to (but not in) a web. Assume there is at least 20 feet of web between the PC and the non-webbed portion of the corridor on the other side of the web. The PC had seen the corridor prior to the web.

1) Can the character perceive any light coming through the web from the other end of the corridor?
2) Can the character perceive anything on the other end of the corridor sufficiently to target a spell that does not require line of sight but does require line of effect? Assume for this question that the spell does not require a creature or specific object as a target, just a general 5' space (like, say, Wall of Stone).

 

[Steve Jung]

More Web spell questions. For this set of questions, assume a PC is in a corridor next to (but not in) a web. Assume there is at least 20 feet of web between the PC and the non-webbed portion of the corridor on the other side of the web. The PC had seen the corridor prior to the web.

1) Can the character perceive any light coming through the web from the other end of the corridor?
2) Can the character perceive anything on the other end of the corridor sufficiently to target a spell that does not require line of sight but does require line of effect? Assume for this question that the spell does not require a creature or specific object as a target, just a general 5' space (like, say, Wall of Stone).

1)If it's bright enough, I guess.

2) 20 ft. of webs provides total cover. Total cover blocks both line of sight and line of effect, so targeting through the web is not permitted.

 

[lonesoldier]

1)If it's bright enough, I guess.

2) 20 ft. of webs provides total cover. Total cover blocks both line of sight and line of effect, so targeting through the web is not permitted.

I'm with Steve on this, though if the web blocks LoS wouldn't it block light?