D&D (2024) Web: Power Overwhelming

[billd91]

While not official ruling per se, the Dev intended to have creature takes 2d4 fire damage regardless of size.

Interesting to note - considering the web burns over time (5 feet of web burns in a round if exposed to fire) a larger creature could spend multiple rounds in that fire as the web burns off around him. So they could take more than 2d4 fire damage - just not in one immediate go. That wouldn't strictly be contradicted by the rule clarification.

That said, that larger critter is almost certainly busting out of that web before it is likely to completely burn off them barring a really bad roll (or sequence of rolls).

 

[Ancalagon]

Interesting to note - considering the web burns over time (5 feet of web burns in a round if exposed to fire) a larger creature could spend multiple rounds in that fire as the web burns off around him. So they could take more than 2d4 fire damage - just not in one immediate go. That wouldn't strictly be contradicted by the rule clarification.

That said, that larger critter is almost certainly busting out of that web before it is likely to completely burn off them barring a really bad roll (or sequence of rolls).

Indeed - but what if a large portion of the web is set on fire at once? (say, burning hand, fireball, etc).

If you believe in your heart of hearts that this interaction with web is intentional, in your own games you can allow the spell to be more lethal. Or you can attempt to convince your DM that this should be allowed- but they might balk, and they are allowed to- "rulings not rules", after all.

It's me, I'm the DM

Personally, if this came up in my game, I'd probably rule that the target takes more damage, but not an additional 2d4 per cube. Maybe 1d4. I'm not sure. You want to reward clever play, but if you're not careful, "web bomb" might suddenly become a standard tactic at your table!

I think I've found a quick/easy ruling: an extra 2d4 dmg per size larger than medium. So an ogre takes 4d4, a huge giant 6d4... enough to make it fun/spicy, but not enough to dominate the game.

 

[billd91]

Indeed - but what if a large portion of the web is set on fire at once? (say, burning hand, fireball, etc).

Then it burns off the large creature faster, but not for more damage. If the medium creature is taking 2d4 in a turn for the webs burning off him (all over him, in fact), then the large creature shouldn't take more for the proportionally same (or even lesser) thing.

 

[Mannahnin]

What makes web special? Don't ask me, ask the designers! The rules are clear:

" Any 5-foot Cube of webs exposed to fire burns away in 1 round, dealing 2d4 Fire damage to any creature that starts its turn in the fire."

So each cube deals damage.

"starts its turn in the fire", not "starts its turn in that cube".

That's how I read that sentence, anyway.

 

[FrozenNorth]

That's how I would rule as well in the rare case that it came up. Still not necessarily a bad thing to do, since a giant isn't likely to be stuck in the web anyway. Slow them down for a round or two and then apply fire works for me.

Actually, most Large and even Huge creatures ARE likely to get stuck in a web. Take a 9th level wizard whose party is facing 2 frost giants.

Let’s assume the wizard started with a 16 Int and used one of his ASIs to increase his Int. His spell DC is 16. He casts Web, catching one of the frost giants. The frost giant has Dex -1 and no save proficiency so is stuck in the web 80% of the time.

On the giant’s turn, he can give up his action to try and break free of the web. With a +6 Str, he has a 55% chance to succeed. Better than 50%, to be sure, but still, far from guaranteed. And if the frost giant succeeds, the wizard has still only used a single 2nd level slot.

 

[Ancalagon]

Actually, most Large and even Huge creatures ARE likely to get stuck in a web. Take a 9th level wizard whose party is facing 2 frost giants.

Let’s assume the wizard started with a 16 Int and used one of his ASIs to increase his Int. His spell DC is 16. He casts Web, catching one of the frost giants. The frost giant has Dex -1 and no save proficiency so is stuck in the web 80% of the time.

On the giant’s turn, he can give up his action to try and break free of the web. With a +6 Str, he has a 55% chance to succeed. Better than 50%, to be sure, but still, far from guaranteed. And if the frost giant succeeds, the wizard has still only used a single 2nd level slot.

You know, this is a good point. The giant has a very decent chance of breaking out of the web, but doing so cost an action. A level 2 spell to cause 1-2 giants to lose a turn getting free? that's a great result! Giants hit hard.

As an aside for my entertainment, I looked to see how tough this encounter would be considered in the new rules. Using the 5.5 DMG encounter builder and the 5.0 giant stats (and assuming the XP hasn't changed), and assuming I didn't flub the math, this is just under a moderate encounter (200 xp short). Having played SKT, I agree - a level 9 party is going to murderize those giants unless the circumstances heavily favor the giants.

 

[Ancalagon]

"starts its turn in the fire", not "starts its turn in that cube".

That's how I read that sentence, anyway.

There is indeed some vagueness on that section of the sentence, but to me, the key to reading the sentence is the word "dealing"

"Any 5-foot Cube of webs exposed to fire burns away in 1 round, dealing 2d4 Fire damage to any creature that starts its turn in the fire"

Whom is dealing the damage? The 5 foot cube of web. Maybe that's not what was intended, but I can't see any other reading than that.

 

[TiQuinn]

What makes web special? Don't ask me, ask the designers! The rules are clear:

" Any 5-foot Cube of webs exposed to fire burns away in 1 round, dealing 2d4 Fire damage to any creature that starts its turn in the fire."

So each cube deals damage.

This doesn't affect other AOE spells because they do not have that verbiage.

Edit: again, I do not disagree this is too much damage for a 2nd level spell. And yes it's odd that web would do this and not other AOE effects. But this isn't some kind of specious reading of the rules, some bizarre unseen edge case. It's the exact wording of the spell!

It’s one parsing of the words in the sentence, but it’s not the only parsing. It can also mean that the fire burns away any five foot cube or the webbing, dealing 2d4 damage. “Any” applies to the burning of the web, but not necessarily the damage. “Any” does not have to mean “Per every”.

 

[Ancalagon]

It’s one parsing of the words in the sentence, but it’s not the only parsing. It can also mean that the fire burns away any five foot cube or the webbing, dealing 2d4 damage. “Any” applies to the burning of the web, but not necessarily the damage. “Any” does not have to mean “Per every”.

The sentence structure is clear. "each cube" is the subject of the verb "burns" and is also the subject of the verb "dealing". Fire is not the subject of the verb dealing . If that was the intention, the sentence is not written properly.

But let's use logic, and not grammar. If the fire was dealing 2d4 damage, wouldn't it mean that web is a form of defense against fireballs or dragon breath? We don't know what fire ignited the web! It could be a torch, it could be a red dragon. But if that starting fire is now dealing 2d4 damage, well that fireball is now a damp squib.

 

[TiQuinn]

The sentence structure is clear. "each cube" is the subject of the verb "burns" and is also the subject of the verb "dealing". Fire is not the subject of the verb dealing . If that was the intention, the sentence is not written properly.

Sentences can be written properly in English and still have two possible meanings.

But let's use logic, and not grammar. If the fire was dealing 2d4 damage, wouldn't it mean that web is a form of defense against fireballs or dragon breath? We don't know what fire ignited the web! It could be a torch, it could be a red dragon. But if that starting fire is now dealing 2d4 damage, well that fireball is now a damp squib.

There’s nothing that says the web provides defense against any external form of damage, only that if the web is lit on fire, it deals 2d4 points of damage. The exclusion of the source of the original fire does not negate that source’s damage.

I have another way of looking at this logically, and you’ve hit on it with your first post. How have you been ruling this spell up until you realized there was a second possible interpretation?

My bet is that you just deal 2d4 damage.

And logically, that interpretation makes sense because you are including all the variables beyond the parsing of the sentence - the intent, the spell level and whether the damage is in-line with that, and just your own internal sense of how the spell should work.