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Weekly Optimization Showcase: Face First (Tempest_Stormwind)

Endarire

First Post
Originally posted by Tempest_Stormwind:

As usual for the showcase, these builds are intended to spur discussion and perhaps inspire a few people in the spirit of the old CO boards. They come from members of my gaming group - me, Radical Taoist, DisposableHero_, Andarious, Sionnis, and Seishi - and I'll always identify who wrote the build at the start, so do not assume I'm the guy behind all of them (because I'm not!).

Unless otherwise noted, showcase builds use 28 point-buy, and have their snapshots evaluated using fractional base attack / saves (because it simplifies the math). None of them actually rely on fractional to be built, though. The format I use showcases their progression at key levels rather than just presenting the build and showing off a few tricks at level 20; most of these are capable of being played 1-20 if you so choose.



With that out of the way, let's get started. This week, we present one of Radical Taoist’s.

------------------

FACE FIRST
We should talk.

Required Books: Expanded Psionics Handbook, Complete Psionic, Eberron Campaign Setting, Magic of Eberron, Secrets of Sarlona, anything with Urban Tracking in it. The Mind’s Eye is used for one power, one item from the Magic Item Compendium is suggested, and there’s a nifty power from Races of Eberron you might want in a psionic item.
Unearthed Arcana used: None! (The Open Game source for Urban Tracking was from a variant in Unearthed Arcana, but the feat’s been reprinted lots of times, notably in Cityscape.)

Background: This build actually started out as one of the four that RadicalTaoist put together as the initial “build repository” that kicked off our group’s building spree. It’s since been substantially revised and documented.

The basic idea is to just combine everything you can get on psionic social support with the few direct social-control feats out there, and see how much room remains for offensive support. To make sure enough power points remain for both social mastery and combat, the build makes use of concentration-based skullduggery (including several efficient lockdown and damage powers) and a psicrystal, and in order to make sure your actions don’t go to waste while doing this, it also employs Astral Constructs.

Essentially, if you’re sticking to a team whose “natural face” isn’t actually acting as the face (i.e. in the classic Fighter/Wizard/Rogue/Cleric party, either the savvy rogue or the charismatic cleric is the “natural” face, but it’s easy for clerics to dump Int and for rogues to want to focus on flashier or more essential skills), you can pull this build out and work on your maniacal (telepathic) laugh.

The Basics


  • Race: Grey Elf. Any +Intelligence race will do. It isn’t essential but it helps overcome DCs and gives you much needed stamina. The reduced HP are terrifying though: if you balk at that, any race without an Intelligence penalty comes second. (My choices for second-place race would be strongheart halfling (the best of Human and Halfling in one small package that everyone expects to be a glib bastard) or kalashtar (especially with the first and third Races of Eberron substitution levels).) Avoid races with Charisma penalties.
  • Ability Scores: 8/10/12/18/8/14, before racial adjustments (-2 Con, +2 Int). As if there was any doubt about this: you’re pumping Intelligence all the time. Do remember to pick up +Constitution items, though: d4 HD doesn’t bode well for 10 Constitution. DON’T dump Charisma; Master Manipulator has specific prerequisites.


Skill Notes: RT was quite surprised at how many skill points this build actually got – and given what those skills are, he also described it as "the handler to the Uncanny Trapsmith’s field agent." (We auditioned Dame Judy Dench for the role, but she was unavailable.) You can max out Concentration, Bluff, Diplomacy, Sense Motive, and Gather Information, and put 5 ranks into seven different Knowledge skills (suggesting Arcana, Psionics, Local, History, Nobility, Religion, and Nature), buy three skill tricks (Swift Concentration and Social Recovery are natural fits; the only other one you qualify for is Collector of Stories), and still have enough skill points left over to max out one other skill. Psicraft comes to mind, but isn’t strictly speaking required at max rank; you can lower it and train in the other Knowledges or pick up a few cross-class ranks in other skills (ideally Int-based ones) if you’d like.

Basic Equipment: As a telepath, you can actually wear armor and manifest, but you won’t be proficient with it; leather armor is a good compromise at level 1 (it’ll be stiff and chafe in the wrong places, but it’ll help keep you alive and won’t get in the way). You’ll also definitely be wanting “masterwork tools” for skills you intend to use; there are several nice outfits that give +2 Diplomacy, for instance. Since low-level telepaths tend to want a bit for offense, you’ll probably resort to crossbows to conserve precious PP.

Magical Gear Goals: You desperately want +Int and +Con items and tomes, probably to the point of considering them your basic offensive and defensive weapons and budgeting accordingly. +Cha and +Dex also help, but are less important (you tend to supplement both of those with your powers). Psionic tattoos (basically potions with a different set of limits, if you’re not used to psionics) of Tongues are a good investment (social skills rely on communication, and you can’t always rely on Mindlink to communicate). Furthermore, you’ll be investing in dorjes and psicrowns to expand your versatility and your stamina. Finally, at the mid levels consider +1 leather armor with the Greater Stamina enhancement from the Magic Item Compendium (p. 16). That’s 13,610 gp for a +2 armor bonus to AC with no armor check penalty, but more importantly, a +5 resistance bonus on Fortitude saving throws. That’ll be useful for the levels before you can afford a full +5 Vest of Resistance.

Note that this build includes Psychic Reformation; this allows you to retool your power and feat selections on the fly. This is intended to let you switch into a “crafting mode” as soon as you could take Craft Psicrown and then switch back. You can use this to keep the GP costs down on your other items: swap in Craft Universal, for instance, when making the +Int item (which should probably NOT be on the headband if you can swing it, since you’ll probably be swapping in psicrowns). A definite worthwhile investment is the Crystal Mask of Discernment, which is 10,000 gp for a +10 insight bonus to Sense Motive. You can also enchant that mask to grant Intelligence bonuses as per the MIC pp. 233-234. Powers you will want in a psicrown or dorje include Psionic Dominate and Implanted Suggestion (from Races of Eberron). The normal Psionic Suggestion is also good too, but note that you’ll eventually be able to implant mundane suggestion effects with your Bluff checks!



The Build.
Build Stub: Telepath 20.

1 – Telepath – (Psicrystal Affinity, Urban Tracking) (Mindlink, Disable, Vigor)
*
[sblock] Mindlink is amazing party support at every level, while Disable is amazing at lower levels (it’s the “Psionic Sleep”, but quite frankly better designed. A passable alternative for low-level offense is Mind Thrust.) Vigor is there to protect your fragile body in case of emergency, and it has synergy with a stunt later on.
Don’t forget that your psicrystal can Aid Another on several skill checks, although at this level that’s mostly Knowledge checks since the psicrystal can’t communicate with others yet. The psicrystal’s personality is freely chosen. Friendly, Sympathetic, and Liar personalities are natural fits.
[/sblock]
2 – Telepath – (Conceal Thoughts, Psionic Charm)*
[sblock]Conceal Thoughts are where we start buffing that Bluff check. Also, synergy bonuses for the Diplomacy skill will kick in at this level.[/sblock]
3 – Telepath – (Expanded Knowledge) (Astral Construct, Mental Rage, Ego Whip) *
[sblock] The conventional wisdom is right: EK (Astral Construct) is one of those ZOMG feat choices for nearly every manifester, particularly wilders (who need the versatility; the fact that it combines well with Surge is an afterthought) and telepaths (who need something to do when fighting creatures whose minds are shielded). You’re not a specialist in this power, but you don’t need to be – it gives you an extra source of actions and a powerful melee combatant (without extra specialization, most astral constructs are about on par with earth elementals) to take over when you just need to beat face. You can freely customize them based on your opponents with little hassle as well.
Mental Rage is a jewel of a power from the final regular 3.5 Mind’s Eye article (“final”, actually; the Mind’s Eye went through three separate 3.5 phases, and this was the end of the first), although it’s tricky to use unless you’re alone, since you have to augment it to exclude your allies instead of enhancing its killing power. (The reduce-AC-penalty augment is usually a trap, just so you know.)

Of course, if you are alone against your foes, put the two together. The constructs fight while you concentrate on the Rage, and they’re immune to Rage’s effect so you can channel more power points into the power’s damage/DC augment.
[/sblock]
4 – Telepath – (Psionic Glibness, Share Pain) *
[sblock] Secrets of Sarlona has a section on several spells that would be appropriate as powers. Glibness is one of them. When combined with like a bazillion ranks in Bluff, the results are fun.
Share Pain is there to give you combat support – mostly by linking your team’s glass cannons or yourself to your psicrystal. Its hardness actually protects it from the damage from Share Pain, believe it or not, which – when combined with the temporary HP from a Vigor, shared between yourself and the crystal – can save your low-Constitution hide.
[/sblock]
5 – Telepath – (Inquisitor) (Energy Wall, Solicit Psicrystal) *
[sblock]Inquisitor is the flipside to Psionic Glibness; you’re now a master of lies as well as of the lying liars who tell them. Not to mention its interaction with your next feat is amazing.
Solicit is now part of your key offensive strategies. If you have PP to spare, use it to shift concentration of powers like Mental Rage or Energy Wall to your psicrystal to keep your actions free for power use or double moves. As you read the rest of the build, note how many powers have a duration of “Concentration” and you’ll see just how useful this trick can be.
[/sblock]
6 – Telepath – (Master Manipulator) (Dispel Psionics, Faint Memory) *
[sblock] And now you have arguably the best social feat in 3.5, along with a ridiculous score in Bluff, Diplomacy, and Sense Motive. (Diplomacy doesn’t get the sick boosts that your powers have provided so far, but it does have three synergistic skills and several already-printed (as opposed to implied) masterwork tools, so you probably have an extra +8 bonus on it by now.)
Faint Memory is an underused power in Magic of Eberron, largely overlooked because it’s on the same page as Forced Dream, widely held to be one of the most broken powers ever published (to the point where no one ever actually optimized it; it was too easy. It’s like a 3rd level Time Regression!). The main reason you’re taking Faint Memory is because of its secondary effect: Anyone you interact with while under the power has to make a Will save to even remember the encounter. If they fail, they don’t remember the meeting, except for specific (true) details you specify. This power can wreak some serious havoc in any game where you’d want to play a social character.
[/sblock]
7 – Telepath – (False Sensory Input, Schism) *
[sblock]FSI gives you generic illusions – they all rely on a will save, but they don’t rely on multiple powers to do, which is nice since we’re starved for powers. Schism gives you extra actions, which is always nice – it takes a round to set up, but once it’s active it can manifest and maintain concentration on concentration-based powers with no loss to you. (This is best with things that aren’t heavily ML-dependent.)
Interestingly, I’m not sure if Share Powers can trump mind-affecting immunity. If it can, nothing stops you from using Share Powers to schism your psicrystal’s personality, and have it take over concentration for two of your powers.
[/sblock]
8 – Telepath – (Psychic Reformation, Read Thoughts) *
[sblock]Read Thoughts could easily come earlier if you’d like. Reformation is mostly for switching to craft mode, as mentioned, but it can also be used to add in extra powers. [/sblock]
9 – Telepath – (Undead Empathy) (Psionic Dimension Door, Mind Probe)
*
[sblock]Normally, undead creatures are a pain in the neck for characters who rely on mind-affecting effect. You already have two counters to such creatures in Astral Construct and Energy Wall, but with the underrated Undead Empathy feat from the ECS, now you can handle undead with your Diplomacy skill checks as well. Mind Probe is a useful way to pick up blackmail material, and Dimension Door is grade-A utility for the mid levels. [/sblock]
10 – Telepath – (Expanded Knowledge) (Psionic True Seeing, Psionic Freedom of Movement, Remote Viewing) *
[sblock] More utility and defensive powers here. You are too good a negotiator to fear grappling assassins or invisible court spies. Remote Viewing is a magnificent information gathering power, and a few of your powers (notably Ego Whip) can be manifested through it for devastating effect. [/sblock]
11 – Telepath – (Co-Opt Concentration) *
[sblock] You now enjoy every psionic concentration trick in 3.5. Between this power, Schism, and Solicit Psicrystal, you can have three separate concentration effects running at the same time. If you pick up the Swift Concentration skill trick, you can even peek out a regular power while focusing on three others. [/sblock]
12 – Telepath – (Expanded Knowledge) (Mass Cloud Mind, Psionic Contingency, Energy Current) *
[sblock] Mass Cloud Mind has great options with a build as deceitful as yours, and Contingency is great overall utility, but the winner is Energy Current. We have another concentration power, and this one is multitarget and high damage. Stacking a few of these up gets painful quick. [/sblock]
13 – Telepath – (Energy Conversion) *
[sblock] This build excels at efficient damage over time, but so far it’s been lacking in spike damage, relying on mind-affecting powers to remove foes from the fight RIGHT NOW. That changes when you pick up Energy Conversion. Share it with your psicrystal, manifest Energy Current on the two of you, and charge up a big chunk of energy damage that can be used immediately in the odd case that negotiations fail. [/sblock]
14 – Telepath – (Retrieve, Temporal Acceleration) *
[sblock] Temporal Acceleration is great for our tactics; nothing like some action advantage to set up a construct or a concentration power. Retrieve gives us a non-mind-affecting Will save power that can be used to defuse conflicts without fighting, as though your skills weren’t enough.
You can also cause some serious havoc by combining Retrieve with any ability that lets you sense objects remotely. You don’t need line of effect to the object you’re heisting – just line of sight. (Unfortunately, Remote Viewing doubles the power point costs of powers manifest through it, so you need a Torc of Power Preservation and a forgiving GM to pull that combo off at level 20, unless you fit an Overchannel feat in somewhere.)
[/sblock]
15 – Telepath – (Expanded Knowledge x2) (Shadow Body, Reddopsi, Mass Ectoplasmic Cocoon) *
[sblock] We get another nonlethal conflict resolution in the versatile and multitargeting Mass Ectoplasmic Cocoon. We also get some incredible defensive options from Shadow Body and Reddopsi. [/sblock]
16 – Telepath – (Correspond, Greater Psionic Teleport) *
[sblock] More utility at this point. D. Door isn’t as long range as we might want it to be. [/sblock]
17 – Telepath – (Psychic Chirurgery) *
[sblock] This is the pinnacle of telepath utility. With this and Psychic Reformation, your psionic party members basically have whatever powers you need them to have. [/sblock]
18 – Telepath – (Expanded Knowledge) (Affinity Field, Reality Revision, Psionic Telekinetic Sphere) *
[sblock] A lot of things come online now. Telekinetic Sphere gives us a(nother) concentration power, this time a defensive option. Reality Revision is just good utility. Affinity Field is the well-known linchpin to a lot of nova tactics, including the devastating suicide novas. [/sblock]
19 – Telepath – (True Mind Switch) *
[sblock] Why not some cheese? If people weren’t willing to listen to you before, steal the face of someone they respect. They’ll listen to you then. [/sblock]
20 – Telepath – (Expanded Knowledge) (Psionic Etherealness, Timeless Body, Astral Seed) *
[sblock] Why not a lot of cheese? Timeless Body is good defense and Etherealness is good utility, but the knockout here is Astral Seed. Between that and True Mind Switch, not only can you cheat death, you can rob the sucker blind and move into his house. Go ahead and suicide nova! That’s not your body you’re blowing up! [/sblock]


Snapshot: As a caster, you don’t have much in the way of equipment needs, so we can justify more ability-boosts. Specifically, with a Tome +5 on Int, a tome +4 on Con, +6 Int/Con items, and +4 Dex/Cha items (leaving you roughly 300k for other gear), you wind up looking like this: 151 expected HP, Base Attack +10 (or ranged touch +12), saves of 11/8/11, and a prodigious set of skills as described above. These skills are further boosted through your feats (socially) or your powers if you so desire. Psionically, you have a full telepath ML (20), so 473 power points and a base DC of 23+power level+augmentations. You also have just about every classic telepath trick in the book, and as your levels go up that includes the ability to rewrite your team from within.

But this is a social build, so you probably want the social skill bonus modifiers. Assuming a +2 Diplomacy outfit and the Crystal Mask of Discernment, you have a +27 bonus to Bluff, a +35 bonus to Diplomacy, and a +32 bonus to Sense Motive before any feats or powers come online. The Inquisitor feat boosts that Sense Motive check to a +42 bonus, and manifesting Conceal Thoughts and Glibness will boost your Bluff checks to a whopping +67 bonus. That’s the point where you want to bust out the epic usages of the skill.



Overall Strengths: You own social encounters. You simply own them. Your skill modifiers can make nearly anyone your friend or get people to believe whatever you want them to, and in between Inquisitor and Master Manipulator, trying to hide information from you is a fool’s game. This is all BEFORE you take into account your wide array of powers, with which you can modify people’s memories and perceptions of events or pick their brain for information like a salad buffet. When talk fails, you have an extremely wide array of versatile and efficient powers for controlling the battlefield and dealing lots of damage over time, combined with a growing array of end-the-fight-now save-or-dies. Combine that with your utility powers, and it’s practically guaranteed that you’ll always have something useful to offer the team.

Overall Weaknesses: Until you get Energy Conversion, your spike damage is not that hot, and anything immune to mind-affecting techniques will ignore your quick finishers. True Seeing will counter illusions and the like, but don’t discount mundane tricksters who just crank their Hide, Disuise, and Move Silently skills into next week, as you don’t have the skills or powers to counter them. Fortitude save-or-die effects are the biggest threat to you, so buy equipment to compensate for it. While Share Pain increases your normal HP by 50 to 100%, that normal HP was still pathetic. You’re only a moderately less squishy wizard with that buff up; avoid taking lots of damage if you’re not Vigored up (at least before the high levels when you become harder to finish off than a Time Lord).

Variants: You certainly meet the requirements (normally the feat requirement is considered a one-off, but here it was chosen for inherent synergy!), so if you’re willing to give up a manifester level or two, leveling in Thrallherd is a distinct possibility. This will require some finesse due to the ML timing on Expanded Knowledge and the sudden shift in class skills (most notably the loss of Gather Information), but it’s certainly possible. A good thrall can make up for the lost manifester levels as necessary, and the followers make a very good information network. (Followers also make surprisingly good expendable agents, especially if they’ve been trained in Autohypnosis. Dragonmarked allows one to use that skill to “forget” parts of one’s knowledge.)





There you have it: a highly flexible diplomat and trickster who can talk his way out of almost any situation. And given the hurt he can lay down in combat? Anyone who starts a fight will soon wish they’d let him talk them out of it.



For the next round, vote between [SN] Chaingun Porcupine, [RT] Quiet Murder, [DH] Eat, Sleep, Gank. These three have a loose theme this time around - they all specialize in spike damage, albeit in rather different ways. Subsequent vote packages may or may not also be themed, depending on what we have written up.

Comments and votes, away!


Originally posted by Slagger_the_Chuul:

It's almost a shame to not see clairvoyant sense get a look in on the information gathering, though Face First should be able to get the same information fairly readily with all those different options available.

On that sort of line, I'm not sure I'd take correspond as a 16th-level choice with both greater teleport (to directly visit) and remote viewing (to locate and communicate remotely) in there, especially with options like the more generally useful psionic moment of prescience and the immensely abusable soul crystal (yet another way to multiply your concentration powers) available.

I don't have a lot of preference for the next round, but I'll put in a vote for the Chaingun Porcupine simply because I like its name.

Originally posted by radicaltaoist:

Mostly I threw in correspond for the chance to talk to (and thus influence) plot-important NPCs at a distance if you need to do so immediately, without removing yourself from a situation where you need to be there in person. But yeah, it's one of the more expendable powers, and moment of prescience and soul crystal are fantastic alternatives.

Originally posted by aelryinth:

Chaingun Porcupine. Sounds interesting!
smile.gif


==Aelryinth

Originally posted by draco1119:

Not what I was expecting when I voted for it, but I am not at all disappointed in what the build ended up being. Phenomenal work, as usual, by your group in general, and RT specifically. My vote is Eat, Sleep, Gank.

Originally posted by Caker:

I always enjoy the more simple builds that you put out, I feel they highlight the effectiveness of a single / 1 prestige classed chracter. Keep up the good work :D. With that said my vote is for chaingun porcupine, because of the imagery the name creates.

Originally posted by awaken_D_M_golem:

Good stuff ... as usual.

Variants could include Thrallherd PrC
or the Charm Mantle via Ardent 1
... (or egad Divine Mind 1).
Get a little diplomancy going on.

Erudite can be a direct substitute for
Psion, but it plays out very differently.

Originally posted by radicaltaoist:

I'd advise against Erudite: it costs us three critical skills as well as Psychic Chirugery and True Mind Switch.

Originally posted by awaken_D_M_golem:

I was thinking Mantled Erudite and Substitute Powers.
And/or the Favored Discipline Erudite.

But yeah I see your point ...

Originally posted by 123456789blaaa:

Could you do a version of this build with a Wilder/Cognition Thief/Thrallherd?


Originally posted by piggyknowles:

I've got to say, you folks mention your love for Master Manipulator both with this build and Uncanny Trapsmith. Here you call it arguably the best social feat in 3.5.

Am I missing something? To me it's handy if you've got a pretty buffed out Sense Motive, but not ridiculous - after all, Bluff is generally a lot easier to make sky-high than Sense Motive. The first ability could be useful now and then, but isn't earth shattering. The second ability, which in the Uncanny Trapsmith build you say will, without fail, reveal your opponent's deceptions, is contingent on beating their Bluff check. Again, a character with a buffed out Sense Motive can certainly make decent use of Trap of Words, but if you beat their Bluff check you already know they're lying.

It's an interesting feat, I just don't see it as being quite as OMG GOOD as it's described here.

Originally posted by radicaltaoist:

I've got to say, you folks mention your love for Master Manipulator both with this build and Uncanny Trapsmith. Here you call it arguably the best social feat in 3.5.

Am I missing something? To me it's handy if you've got a pretty buffed out Sense Motive, but not ridiculous - after all, Bluff is generally a lot easier to make sky-high than Sense Motive. The first ability could be useful now and then, but isn't earth shattering. The second ability, which in the Uncanny Trapsmith build you say will, without fail, reveal your opponent's deceptions, is contingent on beating their Bluff check. Again, a character with a buffed out Sense Motive can certainly make decent use of Trap of Words, but if you beat their Bluff check you already know they're lying.

It's an interesting feat, I just don't see it as being quite as OMG GOOD as it's described here.

Bluff and Sense Motive are the only skills I know of whose rules for interaction include official rules for conditional modifiers greater than than the usual -2/+2 fudging. So while it's hard to overcome glibness and the like blind, with good information gathering you can dig up dirt that calls NPC claims into question and pick up huge conditional bonuses. They don't mention that the Gather Information skill or contact other plane spell will give you +20 to a Sense Motive check, but they can depending on what you dig up.

But you can detect a lie without Master Manipulator. What makes Trap of Words so amazing is its ability to, effectively, cause a compulsion effect without actually being a compulsion effect. It forces the target to slip up and explain why they were lying, which (unlike a well crafted lie) is almost always information they don't want to give up. This is an extraordinary, non-mind-affecting ability; you can use it on intelligent undead, high-SR-and-saves outsiders, what have you. There is no defense against it other than the skill check; it pierces Mind Blank, which read thoughts can't do. Meanwhile, if you're good with Bluff yourself, you can conceal the fact that the other guy slipped up, which means you took sensitive information and they're not aware of it. That's not something you do with magic, really; there are too many ways to detect scrying and other such powers. And again, the target has no defense against this besides the skill check; it's a compulsion effect without the weaknesses of real compulsion effects.

On other news, the Zero Buff Time Gish writeup is awaiting final review and we should get it to y'all soon.

Originally posted by 123456789blaaa:

"Could you do a version of this build with a Wilder/Cognition Thief/Thrallherd?"

I think you guys missed my previous post.

Also, the Fiend of Possesion PRC is also a nice way to probe thoughts that's not mind-effecting. It's pretty obvious though.

Originally posted by radicaltaoist:

Ah, so we did. Unfortunately, I am completely unfamiliar with the Cognition Thief. It's really really hard to get all the powers you'll want in this build with the Wilder, though.

Originally posted by 123456789blaaa:

Ah, so we did. Unfortunately, I am completely unfamiliar with the Cognition Thief. It's really really hard to get all the powers you'll want in this build with the Wilder, though.

Ah but that is the beauty of Cognition Thief (From the Players guide to Faerun). It look pretty awfull at first glance (you lose 4 manifester levels!) but for a Wilder (and to a lesser extent the Ardent) it actually makes up for it. I'll let the poster Samb explain it for me:

"The real entry class is clearly wilder, which no one uses and hence easy to out on. Everyone seems to overlook the fact that in 10 levels you gain 8 free TELEPATH only powers for free. Every level you lose ML you gain 2 powers without using EK. Wilders who only get 11 powers in 20 levels, this almost doubles their powers known and in telepath only list to boot. Hint: schism is on this list

What really makes this over the top is that it says you have to be able manifest the power in order to pick it. This means that if you have practiced manifester (a feat any psionic PC should have anyway for schism) you can pick any power as if you didn't lose ML to begin with. In fact, "be able to cast" can also mean under the effects of a wild surge as well so you could pick even higher level powers faster than if you leveled straight wilder. This alone more than makes up for the lose in ML and an easy +2.

You also gain a bunch of spell like abilities that further make up for a wilder's lack of varity, one of them being read thoughts AT WILL."

By taking Cognition Theif to 10 you lose 2 9nth level psion/wilder powers and gain 8 Telepath powers (ninth level powers included). Wild surge also helps with the pain of the lost pp.

The PRC requires Psionic Blast so go for 7 levels of Wilder (one extra for the bonus to Wild Surge) and then go into Cognition Theif. The PRC also requires Inquisitor and that along with it's other abilities make it a natural fit for Thrallherd.

Originally posted by radicaltaoist:

What really makes this over the top is that it says you have to be able manifest the power in order to pick it.

DOES IT HAVE THE SPECIFIC WORDING YOU FIND IN ARDENT MANIFESTING? As in, it references "manifester level"? Because that is necessary for it to work with wilder as you describe. Either way, that IS a nice find.

Originally posted by 123456789blaaa:

What really makes this over the top is that it says you have to be able manifest the power in order to pick it.

DOES IT HAVE THE SPECIFIC WORDING YOU FIND IN ARDENT MANIFESTING? As in, it references "manifester level"? Because that is necessary for it to work with wilder as you describe. Either way, that IS a nice find.

Ouch! My ears!
smiley-tongue-out.gif


The exact text:

[SIZE=xx-small][SIZE=xx-small][SIZE=xx-small][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE]
[ATT align]"Bonus Powers Known: At 1st, 4th, 7th, and 10th level, the cognition thief learns two new powers chosen from the telepath discipline. She can choose any power from the list that she would be able to manifest. Even cognition thieves who manifest their powers as wilders can choose from the telepath discipline list, which is otherwise forbidden to them. These powers are acquired through personal meditation, just as the new powers learned at each level in a base psionic class are. Thus, they take no time and cost no XP to learn."

And it's not really a "find". Its been known for years now (which you'd know about if you went to other forums! >:0(
smiley-tongue-out.gif
)

[//ATT]


Originally posted by radicaltaoist:

Eeeeeeeeeehhhh....that's so ambiguous. It doesn't seem to work by RAW, but you could argue that the limit on power level in the Wilder's class table applies to powers learned, not powers manifested...

Run it by your GM I guess.

Oh, and
which you'd know about if you went to other forums!

How comes the porting of the showcases?

Originally posted by 123456789blaaa:

Eeeeeeeeeehhhh....that's so ambiguous. It doesn't seem to work by RAW, but you could argue that the limit on power level in the Wilder's class table applies to powers learned, not powers manifested...

Run it by your GM I guess.

Oh, and
which you'd know about if you went to other forums!

How comes the porting of the showcases?

What's the exact text of the Ardents manifesting (I don't have my book on me right now)?

And well...to put it bluntly: 0 progress. I wasn't working on it at all because I figured that it wasn't really important to you guys. Hence it was put on the very back of my priority list (I feel somewhat embarresed since I bugged you guys so much about getting the approval
sad.gif
). If you want the showcases done in the near future i can totally do it (a month would probably suffice). The reason I haven't been working on it is because I figured it wasn't that important to you guys (the fact that it's a pretty huge amount of text didn't hurt either
smiley-tongue-out.gif
) .

Originally posted by furius22:

I do have a question concerning the build. Psionic Glibness is a third level power, and yet, you're picking it up at 4th level. I'm just curious as to how this is happening?


Originally posted by piggyknowles:

I do have a question concerning the build. Psionic Glibness is a third level power, and yet, you're picking it up at 4th level. I'm just curious as to how this is happening?


Actually, I was wondering this myself.

Also, would it be possible to fit on Detect Hostile Intent or Psionic Divination? Those are staples for me on any psion, but seem especially nice on a party-facing psion like this. I know powers are tight, but their lack surprised me a bit.

Finally, this is only a semi-related question, but I have been scouring sources trying to find a psionic power that can emulate Meld into Stone or a similar effect. Basically, I want to be able to meld with an object or otherwise hide/disappear/be removed from harm. I know that StP Erudites could pull it off, but it surprises me that there is no power that does anything even remotely similar. Thematically, adding on the ability to slip into the walls, or turn myself into a vase or something would be the perfect fit to an infiltrator psion that I'm currently working on.

EDIT: One more thing. Feats also seem tight, as you've got a pretty important list of Expanded Knowledges here, but if you were to drop the fifth-level bonus feat to pick up telepathy as per the mind's eye article, how would you readjust the feats in the build?
 

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