D&D General Weekly Wrecana - A New Division of Gish Classes

[Igwilly]

Oh, I knew about Wrecan's articles at WotC community. I was talking about this specific series of articles appearing here as threads. I think these articles should be discussed together.

 

[Garthanos]

Oh, I knew about Wrecan's articles at WotC community. I was talking about this specific series of articles appearing here as threads. I think these articles should be discussed together.

Ah I have in the past sometimes posted all of other series under one banner I was considering posting this one with the Martial Classes one but the images seem to post better when done as a new thread, but I do see how they might relate to one another strong enough having them as one post / and replies to it would be good

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

As a side note: I read this entire series of Wrecan’s articles. Did any other already appear here? It would be nice to discuss this series in context instead of separating everything.
I also think he’s too negative about the Ki Focus, but that’s another topic.

Well, the Ki Focus IS kind of a 'kludge' implement. Its entire purpose is to give Monks enhancement bonuses when they don't attack with a weapon. Its not hideous, but things get pretty klunky when a monk DOES decide to use a weapon (and as it stands all of them will). Effectively they're a weapon+implement class that needs to maintain two offensive big 3 items (though you can certainly make builds that never need a Ki Focus at all).

Overall I think the monk primarily reveals the weakness of 4e's 'weapliment' system in a fairly big way.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Oh, I knew about Wrecan's articles at WotC community. I was talking about this specific series of articles appearing here as threads. I think these articles should be discussed together.

Actually if you find any of them at the wayback machine they're all heavily crosslinked. I read through the whole series the other day.

 

[Igwilly]

Well, the Ki Focus IS kind of a 'kludge' implement. Its entire purpose is to give Monks enhancement bonuses when they don't attack with a weapon. Its not hideous, but things get pretty klunky when a monk DOES decide to use a weapon (and as it stands all of them will). Effectively they're a weapon+implement class that needs to maintain two offensive big 3 items (though you can certainly make builds that never need a Ki Focus at all).

Overall I think the monk primarily reveals the weakness of 4e's 'weapliment' system in a fairly big way.

Ok, I’m lost here. Are you talking about 4e’s Monk or this hypothetical Monk from Wrecan’s article? Because, as I remember, there was no need for both magic items for 4e’s monk.
But, if the problem is that it doesn’t seem to fit, I think it’s just a presentation problem. I’m sure someone can improve the fluff to something more defined.
However, ki focuses and holy symbols in 4e had something that Wrecan clearly didn’t like it: they don’t need to be wielded, only carried. This might upset the idea’s balance state.

 

[Garthanos]

Ok, I’m lost here. Are you talking about 4e’s Monk or this hypothetical Monk from Wrecan’s article? Because, as I remember, there was no need for both magic items for 4e’s monk.

Can use any weapon they are trained with as an implement... it's very like an ingredient I was considering for Warlords with controller powers. Heirloom items, including weapons being the most common.

 

[Garthanos]

Hmmm there seems some tricky bits I found this http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=14931255&postcount=2

(1) Ki focuses in general: Ki focuses are implements, first and foremost. If you are using an Implement power, you can use a Ki Focus for it so long as you're proficient in them.

They also "share" their enchantments with any weapon you're using. So if you have just a normal longsword and a +3 Ki Focus, you get to use the Ki Focus's +3 on your attacks with it. This is awesome for characters like Executioners who expect to swap weapons a lot. It's likewise awesome for unarmed guys and guys who use improvised weapons, like Arena Fighters and some Brawler Fighters, because it affects anything they pick up. (Interestingly, Ki Focus Expertise gives its feat bonuses to any Implement attacks made with a Ki Focus and any Weapon attacks made which are enhanced by the Ki Focus.

(2) Monks: Okay, so monks are proficient in Ki Focuses. They can do all that stuff I just mentioned. Critically, however, Monks can also use any weapon they are proficient in as an Implement. So they don't even need a Ki Focus, if they don't want one. If they're proficient in a Spear and pick up a Magic Spear +2, the Spear's properties and bonuses work towards the Monk's implement attacks. It's really pretty sweet.

Finally, there's a case where you have both a magic weapon and a magic ki focus. Simply put, they don't stack. If I have a Ghost Touch Ki Focus and an Alfsair Spear, it's one or the other when I make a weapon attack with the spear. (And if I have Ki Focus Expertise but not Spear Expertise, it's best if I use the former to get my Expertise bonuses.)

 

[Igwilly]

… That’s my point: no need to have two magic items just for attacks.

Anyway, I think Wrecan’s Gishes are good, too. Except for some names, their concepts sound interesting and flavorful.
However, there is one quibble I have with Wrecan’s design: psionics being treated as magic.
They are not! Why they were brought together, anyway?

 

[Garthanos]

I rather think the monks solution works fairly well perhaps better than other classes with similar issues

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

… That’s my point: no need to have two magic items just for attacks.

Anyway, I think Wrecan’s Gishes are good, too. Except for some names, their concepts sound interesting and flavorful.
However, there is one quibble I have with Wrecan’s design: psionics being treated as magic.
They are not! Why they were brought together, anyway?

What else are they? They operate by supra-mundane contrafactual processes. This is the very definition of magic.