Weird how exhausted folks can charge.

[Shadowdweller]

If it's not a game term then it would not have an entry in the Glossary would it?

I'm not arguing about whether the language is used. Thus, one could say that I am not trying to refute that it is a term, or that it is used in game...and is therefore a game term.

What I am arguing about is that you distinguish this phrase from other forms of halving movement. For which I see no textual support.

 

[AGGEMAM]

What I am arguing about is that you seem to treat 'half-speed' as some sort of special label, distinguishing between this phrase and other forms of halving movement. For which I see no textual support.

And I ask of you to look at the spell description of slow, and compare it to the 'half speed' definition. Compare the two and you will see the difference right away.

Otherwise here's the pointers needed. The difference is that the slow spell divides your movement rate (aka normal speed) by two, whereas the 'half speed' effect doubles the distance each square effictively is.

Although the two effect superficially seems identical, there are some huge differences.

EDIT: Maybe I should note that I did not quote the entire 'half speed' glossary entry below (you know, copyright infringement and all that).

 

[Shadowdweller]

And I ask of you to look at the spell description of slow, and compare it to the 'half speed' definition. Compare the two and you will see the difference right away.

With the end result in terms of distance moved being the same. You see, that's the thing: The Game Designers (hallowed be their names!) are notorious for treating things that are equivalent AS THE EXACT SAME THING, and for not stating all the various effects of some condition in each and every instance of it's use. You will please note: virtual feats counting as ACTUAL feats for purposes of prerequisites despite not technically being the same thing. You will also note that in 3.0 there were a vast number of fear-inducing spells that did not include all the effects of fear, such as the -2 penalty to damage rolls.

In other words, while the example of using doubled movement costs for hampered movement is new in 3.5, there's considerable use of unchanged text from 3.0. Because of this, and because there's no text (to my knowledge: find me some and I'll gladly eat my words) to distinguish that from the old method of simply halving net speed, I think it rather foolish to assume that the two are INTENDED to be distinct.

EDIT: If they wish to try and sue me for discussing the meaning of the text, they're more than welcome.

 

[AGGEMAM]

Hmm .. the 3.0 and 3.5 description aren't exactly the same.

From the 3.0 SRD

Slow

..

Affected creatures move and attack at a drastically slowed rate. Slowed creatures can take only a partial action each turn. Additionally, they suffer –2 penalties to AC, melee attack rolls, melee damage rolls, and Reflex saves. Slowed creatures jump half as far as normal.
Slow counters and dispels haste but does not otherwise affect magically speeded or slowed creatures.

From the 3.5 SRD

Slow

..

An affected creature moves and attacks at a drastically slowed rate. A slowed creature can take only a single move action or standard action each turn, but not both (nor may it take full-round actions). Additionally, it takes a –1 penalty on attack rolls, AC, and Reflex saves. A slowed creature moves at half its normal speed (round down to the next 5-foot increment), which affects the creature’s jumping distance as normal for decreased speed.

Multiple slow effects don’t stack. Slow counters and dispels haste.

Also note the second last line there: 'Multiple slow effects don’t stack', whereas multible 'half speed' effect do stack.

If movement cost is doubled twice, then each square counts as 4 squares (or as 6 squares if moving diagonally). If movement cost is doubled three times, then each square counts as 8 squares (12 if diagonal) and so on. This is an exception to the general rule that two doublings are equivalent to a tripling.

From the PHB, page 309.

Half Speed: When restricted to moving at half speed, count each square moved into as 2 squares, and every square of diagonal movement as 3 squares. If you are restricted to half speed, you can't run or charge, nor can you take a 5 foot step.

 

[Shadowdweller]

Hmm .. the 3.0 and 3.5 description aren't exactly the same.

The relevance of this being...?

Also note the second last line there: 'Multiple slow effects don’t stack', whereas multible 'half speed' effect do stack.

Still not a sign of differentiation, I fear. Exhaustion (NOT fatigue) effects don't stack either...but that doesn't mean it's not possible to suffer an additional strength penalty from some other source (e.g. ray of enfeeblement) that DOES stack.

 

[AGGEMAM]

Still not a sign of differentiation, I fear. Exhaustion (NOT fatigue) effects don't stack either...but that doesn't mean it's not possible to suffer an additional strength penalty from some other source (e.g. ray of enfeeblement) that DOES stack.

*shrug* I give up explaining it to you. I'll let someone else try now. Trust me though, it's how it works.

 

[0-hr]

By the way Agg, thanks for answering my original question. Sorry it brought up that little spat of bickering.

 

[drnuncheon]

A slowed creature can take only a single move action or standard action each turn, but not both (nor may it take full-round actions)...A slowed creature moves at half its normal speed (round down to the next 5-foot increment), which affects the creature’s jumping distance as normal for decreased speed.

Whoah. You can only take a move action and you move at half speed? That would mean that your average character could only move 15' per round, which is a big difference from 3.0.

I think it's more likely that the 'half speed' there is only in reference to the jumping.

J

 

[AGGEMAM]

I think it's more likely that the 'half speed' there is only in reference to the jumping.

No. In that case the wording would be different. It would something like: 'Is considered to move at half your normal speed for the purposes of jumping'.

 

[Shadowdweller]

*shrug* I give up explaining it to you. I'll let someone else try now. Trust me though, it's how it works.

I continue to disagree. However: Thanks for the effort, anyways.