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Welcome to the Halmae (updated 2/27/07)

jerichothebard said:
I'm still not seeing it. If I presented my players with this dilemma, they would probably go ballistic and open up the keg of PC whoop-ass on the Shesher.
It recently occurred to me that another non-obvious factor here as far as PC motivations were concerned--at least for Lira--had to do with the fact that since we'd been in Ebis, the local human populace had not exactly endeared themselves to us.

Lt. Kahtib seemed to be a stand-up guy, but his fellow citizens had tried to enslave us, abandoned us in the desert, instituted a policy to kill all wizards and sorcerers (which especially with Lira earns you no points), and just the other day Jamaldeen threatened to flog Lira himself.

On the other hand, the prospective guide Parwin (also a Shesher) would have been our top choice to lead us through the desert if she had had any idea where to find the place we wanted to go. She also had quite the slavery sob story, if you will recall.

So the Shesher had inherited a bit of good will from that, and the humans had to overcome previous negative impressions.

And the most frustrating thing was the complete refusal of anyone to see any sort of reason.
 

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I don't know, I think an ear for an ear may have been a workable solution. The elves, like the merchant, could have it regenerated, or at the least cured. Which is what the children offered. It might be a salutory lesson for the young elf.

And I tend to agree with dpdx. Its not the elves people are reacting to, but their bloodymindedness.

thotd
 


I also have been struggling with this since it all got started. I'm not sure exactly how to put into words what's bothering me, but seeing as it's about time for an update :D I figured I'd throw in my two cents.

I think my problem is that it seems wrong, to me, for the children to count coup against humans who don't have that custom. That's not exactly what I mean, because I know that various American Indian tribes did that (and that's the form of counting coup with which I am familiar), but it doesn't seem to be that exacting a task to count coup against someone who isn't expecting it. I mean, yes, it's not easy, but considering the elves' immense sense of "honor," how honorable is it to attack relatively undefended (I mean, come on, they're humans) enemies? Plus, and of course since this is Fajitas's world and isn't at all ours this might not apply, if you get caught while counting coup, then you just suck, right?

This isn't entirely coherent; like I said, I'm not sure exactly what it is about the situation that bothers me. I think I would have started shooting and/or taken to the hills at the first sign of stubborn idiocy. As doghead said, major kudos to the players for sticking to hard in-character lines.
 

I just can't buy cutting off a body part as the equal of joyriding. And the point about a limited number of medieval punishments is a good one; you can't toss them in a junevile detention center for a year. What would be the historical punishment? Probably having your hand or other body part cut off.
 

Like others have said, it's not a pro-Elf/anti-Elf issue. It's that everything these Elves have done and said has given the impression that their side is the only one that matters; they've basically written off any Human objections as being irrelevant. This is hardly a new thing, and the Ebisites have done it too to some extent, but not with the single-minded obliviousness that the Shesher have seemed to.

Basically, their side comes down to four points:

1> They left healing.
They attacked and mutilated innocents, and then left a token amount of healing that couldn't possibly make up for it, even assuming the humans could have recognized the braids as magical scrolls in the first place. It'd be like shooting an unarmed man in the leg, handing him a band-aid, and saying that you're now even (better than that: it's something you plan on bragging about afterwards!) Effectively, they were meeting the letter of the "law", so they could say they weren't harming anyone, while completely ignoring the spirit of it. It's worse than doing nothing at all; they acknowledged that healing is needed, but refused to provide the right amount. It's like tipping your waiter a nickel; if you left nothing, he could at least believe you forgot, or put it on a credit card or something.
If they had arranged for a healer to regenerate the ears, that'd be different; if the victim had been an Elf, would they have done the same? And I don't just mean an Elf like Reyu, I mean a member of their own tribe.

2> It's just a flesh wound.
Some societies pride themselves on scars, or at least don't care about minor disfigurement. Maybe an Elf would accept the loss of an ear in this manner, although I doubt it. But that's irrelevant; the real indication of how serious the offense is is how the victim sees it, not how you do. Based on previous contacts, the Elves should have known that this is something the Humans wouldn't just write off as "kids being kids"... but they probably just didn't care. In their culture it was okay (maybe), so anyone who objects is just ignorant, and any punishment is unjustified.

3> They're just kids.
The Elves are treating the other townsfolk as being guilty by association in not letting them evacuate... and yet their tribe isn't doing the same. If the Elves who did this truly were "children", implying that they don't bear responsibility, then someone else must. Even if they truly thought that no crime was committed, they'd still argue that someone more senior should assume responsibility in place of the children. It's the classic hostage situation, where the negotiator says "take me instead, let them go"; you're not acknowledging the other side is right, just that the truly innocent shouldn't suffer either way. But they haven't. Even if you didn't hold the individual parents responsible, the tribe as a whole could have offered restitution.

4> Go along with it, or we kill you in the name of Honor.
And finally, here we have their real position. The other three arguments are so full of holes that they inevitably fell back to this. This is the only one that affects the players directly, of course.

I'm not saying the situation isn't convoluted. I'm just saying that there's been absolutely no reason to take the Elves' side on this. Arguing that the sentence of slavery is too severe is a separate issue.
 

Wow. This is awesome. :D Well, here's what the Ebisite Justicar had to say about the matter.

Part the One-Hundred Sixty-Eighth
In which: judgment is rendered.

It takes three days for the Ebisite military Justicar to arrive.

In the interim, Reyu informs the party that she will not return to the village, but instead makes camp in the no-man’s land between the elves and the humans. Lira and Eva both decide to join her. To pass the time, Reyu starts to teach Eva Elven.

On the first night, while sitting watch together, Lira finally summons the courage to ask Reyu about a matter that has been weighing on her mind.

“I uh… really appreciate you saving my ear,” she begins, rather awkwardly.

For her part, Reyu appears to have regained her typical calm. “It is hardly fitting for me to lecture young Zili about the folly of her pride if I am not willing to relinquish my own.”

Lira nods and pokes their fire a bit. “So… Are you going to tell the others that I haven’t been using my real name?”

“Would you rather I not?”

“I’d appreciate it.”

A pause. “Why?” Reyu asks.

Lira lets out a long breath before she answers. “I left my family rather abruptly. I don’t know if any of them care enough to come looking for me or not, but I’d rather not be found.”

“Because?”

“Like I’ve said, they’ve tended to take my being a sorcerer… badly.”

“In that case, why would they seek you?”

Another shrug from Lira. “I don’t know that they are. I haven’t seen any signs of it. But it’s all the more reason to make a clean break. I’m not just somebody’s daughter anymore.”

That, Reyu readily concedes. Even in the relatively short time she has known Lira, the young human has grown much. “I will keep your secret if that is your desire. Perhaps, you will someday find a name better suited to who you have become.”

###

Thatch and Anvil spend their days helping to fortify the village’s defenses in case the elves do not keep to their word, or are unsatisfied with the Justicar’s judgment.

On the second afternoon of work, while rooting around in storage, Thatch finds two-dozen seedlings, roots tied in sacks and leaning in rows against the wall of a shed. He signals to the soldier from the village who was asking for the party’s help earlier.

“Where should these be planted?” he asks.

“Out in the groves,” the man replies. Adding, “But it’s not safe to go out there anymore. The elves have destroyed everything. Those were just about to be transplanted when the siege hit.”

Thatch checks his sword and shoulders a shovel. “We should get them in the ground then.”

The two men go out to the cleared area around the village and plant the spindly sticks. (Thatch waters them all in liberally with the decanter.) He can’t help but think that, despite all of his years on his family farm, he has never found planting something so satisfying. He just hopes they aren’t all going to be burned down in three days time.

###

At last, the Justicar arrives. He carries the rank of Captain in the Ebisite army, and Lt. Katib reports and briefs him on the situation. The Justicar then takes a day to speak to the other parties involved in the case. He interviews Jamaladeen the merchant, the prisoners, the War Hand, and finally, comes to speak to Anvil.

“You have had much interaction with the parties of this case. What would your judgment be?”

Anvil, while not one to hold back when asked to expound upon matters of Justice, chooses his words carefully. “It is not my place to decide Justice in this matter,” he begins, “but if the judgment were with me, I would rule that the children should be beaten, not enslaved, and then returned to their people.”

“And if it were Dar Pykos which was besieged by the Shesher, if you were forced to make your ruling with a knife to your throat, what would you say then?”

Anvil gives the question proper consideration. Finally he says, “I would do as I must, that Kettenek’s Justice might be served another day.”

###

Just before dark, the Justicar finally summons the disputing parties, along with the adventurers, to a hill in the center of no-man’s land and dispenses his ruling:

“It has been laid upon me to dispense the Justice of Kettenek in the matter of these Shesher and the merchant Jamaladeen. It is my finding that for the crime of assaulting and mutilating Jamaladeen and his wife, the four children will be publicly flogged. In addition, the Shesher nation will pay restitution to Jamaladeen to compensate him for expenses incurred for the regeneration of his person, and that of his wife. If the Shesher cannot afford to do so, they will recompense him by allowing his caravans to travel safely through the desert without being charged the customary payments for protection.”

The Justicar pauses. All present remain silent, as it is clear he has not yet finished his judgment.

“Furthermore, so that it be clearly understood by all, in the strongest possible terms, that the practice of counting coup against human caravans by assaulting humans traveling along the Sea Road is completely unacceptable, the four Shesher children, before being returned to their people, shall each have one of their ears severed.

“This is my judgment, and the Judgment of Kettenek.”

He pounds his staff into the ground four times, and his words are sealed.

Naturally, Jamaladeen is very vocal in his displeasure about the ruling, but with the word of an Ebisite Justicar on the record, Lieutenant Katib is now under little obligation to humor him.

The party is mostly concerned with the reaction of the elves. The ruling causes much discussion among the Shesher delegation, but at last, the War Hand comes forward.

“We will abide by this judgment.” She then turns to Reyu… and presents her with a bead. “When you have your new braid, let your first deed be known as ‘baby saver’.”

Reyu takes the gift, clutching it tightly in one hand.

One by one, the parties leave the hill, until the adventurers and the Ebisite Justicar are left standing alone in no-man’s land.

Anvil turns to him. “Thank you.”

The Justicar sighs. “Thank you. I would not have thought that more bloodshed over this matter could have been avoided. Is there anything I can do to thank you for your assistance?”

Lira nudges Anvil, mouthing “passports.”

Anvil nods. “There is. We have had some difficulties of our own while traversing the desert. We have found ourselves far off of our intended course, and are now making towards Nayarii. However, you are the first Ebisite official we have met for some time, and we have no papers for travel to that city.”

The Justicar studies Anvil and the party for a few moments, probably guessing that there is more to this story than they are saying. However, he also decides to let it pass. “Of course. Before I return tomorrow to meet my division, I will have my clerk draw up the proper documents for you.”

Eva does her best not to let her relief show.

“Thank you again then,” Anvil intones.

“Kettenek’s Justice be upon you.”

“And upon you.”

###

(At this point, Fajitas turns to us and says, “Anything else you want to do while you’re here?” To which the quick and unanimous reply was, “Not let the door hit us on our way out.” Pfew!)
 

Never thought I'd say this, but I think the Ebisite Justicar's decision was too harsh. Everything up until "the kids have to lose their ears, too" would have been fine.
 

dpdx said:
Never thought I'd say this, but I think the Ebisite Justicar's decision was too harsh. Everything up until "the kids have to lose their ears, too" would have been fine.

Come on man, the elves have enough healing to regenerate the lost ears and as far as I'm concerned this just serves to drive home the point of thinking before acting.
Even as a paladin of Tymaril I stand behind the verdict of the Justicar.
"Justice be done, either Kettenek's or Tymaril's"
 

Maybe braids, but not ears. Cmon, if it's so damn easy to grow them back, why bother? Isn't a couple of lopped-off ears enough?
 

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