We're All Gamers Together: Why Harassment Has To Stop

Another piece talking about the harassment of women in tabletop gaming has surfaced on the internet. At least one of the incidents related in that piece has been substantiated as being true, so I am willing to accept that there is more truth in that article. Whether gamers, or geeks in general, want to admit it or not, there are serious issues within our communities with how people act towards women, people of color, and the LGBTQI. We need to knock that off right now. Obviously, this is an opinion piece.

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Another piece talking about the harassment of women in tabletop gaming has surfaced on the internet. At least one of the incidents related in that piece has been substantiated as being true, so I am willing to accept that there is more truth in that article. Whether gamers, or geeks in general, want to admit it or not, there are serious issues within our communities with how people act towards women, people of color, and the LGBTQI. We need to knock that off right now. Obviously, this is an opinion piece.
Just as a warning, for those who might be bothered by certain sorts of content, some of the incidents that were relayed to me, the stories that were told, have jarring, uncomfortable occurrences in them. If mentions of rape and unsolicitated physical contact will bother you, you might want to skip the rest of this article. I know reading the emails and PMs from these women bothered me as they came in.

As much as what these women related bothered me, and obviously bothered them as the targets of the harassment, I felt that the fact that it was so uncomfortable was exactly the reason why this current piece needed to be written. We, as a group, need to start looking the people doing this harassment in the eye and telling them that we don’t think it is okay. We need to stop pushing these accounts into the shadows, under the rugs, and pretending that they do not exist. We need to make our communities into better places for everyone, and not just a bunch of men.

I put out a call over my various social media feeds (which was shared a lot), asking for women to share their experiences of harassment in tabletop gaming with me. Anonymity was offered to those who wanted it, and not surprisingly most respondents asked that their names be kept confidential. The reasons for them wanting to be kept anonymous were one of two. First, they were afraid of further harassment within their communities for calling out the bad behavior. They seen how women who tell men to stop get treated in small, closed communities and, for better or worse, they want to continue with their hobbies without additional harassment. The second reason was a bit scarier. Some of these women are professionals, working in tabletop gaming in a number of different capacities, who fear that publicly coming forward would negatively impact their careers within gaming.

I’ll just say that last one again, with emphasis: they were afraid that coming forward about their harassment, or the harassment that they had witnessed, would negatively impact their careers in tabletop gaming.

Because of these reasons, I will be keeping the identities of everyone who asked anonymous. Everyone who spoke with me identified themselves, I am just not identifying them.

One of the common threads through the experiences shared was rape. Most of these women had had characters raped during convention play, online games, or at events at stores. Sometimes the rapes were matter-of-factly introduced into play, others there was a titillating level of graphic detail to the assaults. One women talked about how a regular attendee at a local convention bragged of having a “rape kit” in his car for the women at the convention, and at one point he yelled at her to “find him women to sleep with.” She also talked about the organizers of the convention having a “men only camping retreat” and when she was on the board of the con the only way that she could attend was “nude and wearing a dog collar.” Another woman talked about the GM of her online game suddenly having her character knocked unconscious, taken away on a ship, and then graphically narrated raping her character. All of this occurred on voice chat while using a popular virtual tabletop site.

Another woman told me that her attempts at organizing a couple of women only games for a VTT online convention was met with such vehemence from male gamers that the games were pulled from the schedule of the convention.

People wonder why more and more people think that anti-harassment policies are needed at conventions. After all, even Gen Con has one:
Gen Con: The Best Four Days in Gaming! is dedicated to providing a harassment-free Event experience for everyone, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, disability, physical appearance, body size, race, religion, or affiliation. We do not tolerate harassment of convention participants in any form. Convention participants violating these rules may be sanctioned or expelled without refund at the discretion of show management.

And an Ethics policy:

All of the following constitute grounds for expulsion from the convention without refund:
  • Violating any federal, state, or local laws, facility rules or convention policies
  • Failure to comply with the instructions of Gen Con Event Staff or security personnel
  • Using anything in a threatening or destructive manner against person or property
  • Endangering the safety of oneself or others
  • Threatening, stealing, cheating or harassing others
  • Failure to conduct oneself in a mature manner

The creators of the 13th Age RPG have anti-harassment policies for their organized play because “Nobody shows up for a game with the goal of feeling uncomfortable or unsafe, and sorry that they came. But organized play brings together many different types of people with different expectations and approaches to play. An anti-harassment policy sets ground rules that everyone can recognize and follow, resulting in better games and more fun.” In the policy they outline harassment as “Everyone has the right to a space that is safe from any type of harassment: physical, verbal, emotional, or sexual.”

Honestly, considering the experiences that have been related to me, these sorts of policies should be commonplace for conventions and organized play. I have heard that Paizo is currently drafting an anti-harassment policy for their organized play, and Ad Astra Games has one in place already.

These are some of the more overt things that women have to deal with in their tabletop gaming experiences, and doesn’t go into the more “casual” or systemic harassment and sexism that women deal with at conventions, in online play and at game stores. One of the women talked about women being a subclass in society, and it being more so in gaming communities. “It sucks for a female gamer, going into a store and having that reaction.”

Men are openly commenting on women’s body parts in a sexual manner. Sexual content is added to games because “that’s the kind of stuff that women like.” Crude sexual references and jokes are made.

I’m not saying that there is no place for sexual, or adult themes, in gaming. Just the opposite, in fact. In my personal groups I game with grownups, and we play games that can have adult material in them. We have, however, agreed that content like that is okay in advance, and most of the time we agree that players’ agency over their characters should not be railroaded by the story of the game, or the actions of the GM. There is a huge difference between making awkward sexual comments out of the blue, because you are hoping it will interest a woman gamer, and making awkward sexual comments that people expect in their game. This goes doubly so for games in public spaces, like conventions or stores.

And just because it is okay with your wife, girlfriend or the woman in your gaming group at home, that doesn’t mean that it is okay with all women. If it makes someone at the table uncomfortable, or makes them feel like they are being harassed, just don’t do it, or apologize for having done it.

And, of course, none of them are safe from accusations of being a “fake geek girl,” or being in the store to get something for their husband or boyfriend. Apparently the idea that a woman would want to buy her own dice or miniatures or rule books is alien to some gamers.

As Jon Peterson, author of Playing at the World, points out in an online essay, there have always been gender problems in tabletop gaming. But he also points out that women have been interested in tabletop gaming for a long time. But, just because something has “always been that way,” it does not mean that it has to stay that way. Even in the 1970s TSR Games employees were taken to task by fandom, and female designers, to be more respectful of women gamers and to stop using phrases like “ladygamers.” Sadly, these attitudes that were considered to be outdated back then are still being perpetuated now…in some cases by some of the same people.

My first AD&D group, back in 1979, had a woman for the GM, and about half of the group were women. Most of my groups since then have had women involved in them. We need to be better, as a community, about these things. We need to speak out when we see women being harassed, online or in person, and we need to tell the people who think that doing this is okay that it isn’t. We need to be active in making the change that creates better communities where we don’t have to worry about our friends being harassed because of their gender, or their sexual preferences, or their ethnicity. We have to convince conventions and organized play societies that having anti-harassment policies is a good thing, and enforcing them so that everyone feels welcomed and accepted is a better thing.

Guys, we have to remember that this isn’t about us. This isn’t about our perceptions of what is happening at conventions, during organized play events and in online games. We sit back, listen and ask what we need to do, rather than try to make the discussion about how it “isn’t all men.” We already know that. We need to not take the focus away from what needs to be done.

There are never going to be completely safe spaces, in gaming or outside of it. However, we can make better places where no one has to worry about their body parts being part of the table talk, or their characters being sexually violated. It is the 21st century, and we should be better about this than we are. We need to stop being quiet, stop facilitating harassment, and we need to start making better spaces for ourselves and our fellow gamers. A group, like nerds, that talk so much about being harassed in their youth for being different should really be more sensitive about harassing others. We can, as a group, be better about this, and we need to do it.
 

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HardcoreDandDGirl

First Post
I've been to well over 30 conventions in my life and you know how many times i've been physically assaulted or spoken to in any way I found close to menacing or harassing? Zero. Yet this is what women like HardcoreDandDGirl get conditioned into thinking by the behavior of some of the men in the community - that they are relatively lucky to have been physically assaulted only 3 times. That's how bad the problem is. That's how far this is from what should be a normal expectation of zero physical assaults in over 30 years of gaming.

I am almost 30... I have been gaming since I was 8, my first Con was a local one at the age of 13 and I hate to say it but I know almost no woman who go to cons and stores and play that don't have at least 1 story...

Not one of my woman friends that aren't gamers can say they don't have at least a 'feel uncomforable' story so I don't want to make it sound like it is just gamers.

How ever I would kill for the next little girl who wants to play D&D comes here and say "Never happened to me..."
 

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Dannager

First Post
So you talk tolerance and acceptance out of one side of your mouth and then don't tolerate or accept me out of the other side. That's a very hypocritical stance. You should practice what you preach

Hi, Maxperson. I'm not going to be particularly kind to you, in this post. I'm not going to be overtly rude to you, but I'm not going to be kind to you. I honestly don't have the patience for it (and that's saying a lot). If you require kindness in your discussions, I suggest skipping this post and perhaps this thread. It probably isn't for you.

Let's break this down.

So you talk tolerance and acceptance out of one side of your mouth

You are under the mistaken belief that I advocate unconditional tolerance.

That is a straight up absurd, absolutely ludicrous belief, and about thirty seconds of serious thought would have shown you that.

No one advocates unconditional tolerance, because unconditional tolerance is a bad thing. You know this, of course - you just haven't connected the dots. It's the reason almost no one tolerates slavers, rapists, and other people who are unrepentant in their abuses. Again: no one advocates the unconditional tolerance you seem to think I advocate.

What people do advocate is compassionate tolerance, especially of the things that people have no control over, or that they have no moral imperative whatsoever to change. Gender. Sexuality. Race. Ableness. These things (and more!) should be tolerated and embraced.

Ideology, though? Ideology should only be tolerated when the ideology is neutral, at worst, and ideally only when it is positive.

You have a certain ideology, Maxperson. I'm not a fan of it. I'm not a fan because your ideology suggests that individuals do not have a moral imperative to be considerate in their speech and their actions. Your ideology is not one of compassionate tolerance. Your ideology is callous, and that's describing it charitably.

and then don't tolerate or accept me out of the other side

That's right. I don't tolerate your ideology. For the same reason that I don't tolerate any other form of toxic bigotry. And I'm not the only one here who shares that view. Now, it may be that your personal set of beliefs doesn't rise to the revolting level that overt racism, for example, might. I can't say. What I can say is that tolerating or accepting you and the ideology you profess here would be morally wrong of me. It would make the world a worse place, if I tolerated what you believe. I do not tolerate your ideology, because your ideology harms.

That's a very hypocritical stance.

Nope. You didn't understand my stance. Now you do. I'm being as crystal clear as I possibly can on this, because you have had a problem understanding the positions of the people you're talking to up to this point. I'm trying to avoid that going forward.

You should practice what you preach

This is what it boils down to: I don't preach unconditional tolerance. You and your ideology are one of the conditions that strips that tolerance away. Were you, yourself, a person tolerant of the things one should be tolerant of, this wouldn't be a problem. But you aren't.

Here's the thing. I tolerate your position,

My position doesn't require that you tolerate it. The position that I hold won the fight ages ago, and you will deal with it. You don't have a choice, I'm afraid. That's just the world you live in. You can rage against it, but you will deal with it all the same.

even though I think excessive political correctness very silly position to take.

"Acceptable political correctness," here, being anything you are personally comfortable with, and "excessive political correctness," here being anything you are not comfortable with.

I can understand not calling someone retarded or a retard, but I think saying that calling a handicapped person handicapped is offensive and not politically correct is silly.

Perhaps you should consider asking the handicapped community whether they feel it's silly.

Handicap is a neutral descriptor of fact.

As was "retard", once. What is and isn't considered "neutral" varies over time. Welcome to human language. It's a cowpath.

Someone with a disability does have a handicap and overcoming that handicap is great, but it doesn't make the handicap go away.

Do you honestly believe that is a sound argument? Do I need to replace "handicap" with "mental retardation" for you, or can you manage that scenario on your own?

Where I draw the line is when people like you come to me and demand that I follow your silly views and/or call me big bad wrong for not following those silly views.

No one cares where you draw the line, Maxperson. You have three choices - continue to perpetuate your callous ideology, and be judged poorly for it; reform your ideology into something more compassionate; or stop talking altogether. In the end, you are the one who has to live with the consequences of that choice. You can call our views silly, but that isn't nearly as unflattering as you will be seen by the rest of the world.

Feel free to be silly. Call handicapped people physically challenged. Call people who fall over vertically challenged. Walk down the street in a chicken suit flapping your arms and clucking for all I care. Just don't demand, expect or judge me for not being excessive with political correctness.

You have absolutely no control over whether or not people judge you. And I will be clear: Many of the people who you respect and who have power over you will judge you poorly for your ideology. You will continue to be judged, just as you undoubtedly have been in the past. If you don't want people to judge your ideology poorly, fix your ideology. It is broken, and lacks a certain requisite level of humanity.

Only one of the two of us is actually practicing the tolerance that you preach, and it's not you. I fully support your right to be excessively politically correct. You don't support my right not to be.

This isn't about "rights", Maxperson. I am not the government. I cannot infringe on any right you are guaranteed. I can judge you, just like the rest of the world can. You have the right to be horrible, and others have the right to point out how horrible you are being. That's the world you live in, and it isn't going to change in the way you want it to change. You can live out the rest of your life in bitter frustration as the world around you shrinks and you find your ugly beliefs tolerated by fewer and fewer people, or you can engage in some serious, deliberate introspection and come out the other side a better, more compassionate person.

Your call.
 
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Fergurg

Explorer
No, no confusion. That's why I quoted your posts. I'm using you as an example.

You seemed to think that your situation at 19 was different. It isn't. You acted in ignorance and were corrected by social pressure. That's great. There are some in this thread- not necessarily you- who seem to think social pressure is unwarranted or ineffective. You're a counter to that position.

Ok. I thought you were thinking that I was arguing against social pressure. That makes sense now.

In addition, as I discussed upthread- or was it the other thread?- "One accusation" occasionally gets people tossed from venues for a reason: the venues have hard data collected worldwide via their trade organization IAVM and law enforcement that tells them removing the accused is most often the most efficient and reliable way to keep the peace in their venues/events.

And it is my opinion that just keeping the peace shouldn't be the priority, especially when better options are available.

Now, to clarify, larger venues do not necessarily remove you from the premises based on a single accusation. Some will merely take you to another area within the building- be that just another area or an actual holding cell- and ask you not to interact with your accuser.

Others- the ones with SERIOUS bankrolls- may well eject you after a single accusation...because they have video evidence that shows or seems to show corroboration. There are some venues that have you on camera once you get out of a car in their parking areas, and have some powerful facial recognition software to go along with it.

Some also have undercovers.

So if you see someone tossed seemingly after just a single accusation of harassment, be aware that the venue's security may be acting upon more evidence than you realize.

And those are reasonable things to do. But these are not "The accusation is the evidence". These are "The accusation gets you put on the radar and they're checking it out for themselves." When they expel, they make sure that it's an offender, not someone who was just accused.

I generally do assume that if someone is being booted from a place, that there is more to the story than I know - unless the place has a policy of removing the accused on only the basis of an accusation, which is what some people are advocating here.
 

Jeanneliza

First Post
No the point was it wasn't refused, one person posted that they thought this was divisive to the community, which I replied they were being too sensitive to the subject. And I'm guessing they then went on a underground campaign to harass and engineer a boycott of ALL of her games last weekend. Which if that is the case Ellspeth I am sorry that it happened and it is complete crap that it happened. I have stronger words for this, but Morrus's grandmother may not approve.

Nylanfs is correct and I have restated it several times, the game wasn't refused, and was cleared by the event organizers before I posted it because THEY did support it. They are also busy men with lives, jobs, trying to organize an event for a few hundred people, even on line that is work. Nor could I prove early on that this was the case, even now my evidence may not be considered sufficient proof, could just be a coincidence eh? But I didn't want to disrupt the event or "be a drama queen" or "seek attention" during an event when some people I know are sincere and decent and really good gamers put a lot of hard work into. I also needed to step back and see a larger part of the community, hear to what degree these issues were occurring for women. I have only been playing a little over two years, (on stage role playing much longer) and in hat time I have met maybe five women that I could ask, but one is the 70+ year old mom of the GM, NO ONE misbehaves in that group. Whil I am hugely disappointed, some of what I have read here has helped me realize it could be so much worse, and that there are those willing to speak up as needed. Oh and Nylanfs, remeber the complaint when I said there are men who don't WANT women in their games, but you guys wouldn't know because they don't have to say so to have it? Read these threads.
 

Keep in mind that 8% figure came from a poll which had around 60% female response. I doubt Gen Con's 61,500 attendance was ~37,000. The high number of female respondents surely skewed the percentages.

Not trying to diminish, just trying to be accurate. Still, even assuming a 1% (8 times lower) still lands you in the hundreds. So the point is still easily made. I just don't want to over inflate the issue and scare people off. 5k sexual assaults out of 62k is insane.
Thank you the last thingiwant is to get into numbers thing,,,they areway too high. Someone below already tried to take what I thought was a normal turn a phrase to make issue...

But no about 8%ish is a big issue... Physical and sexual assault numbers like that are iirredeemable.Does anyone know how to contact the cons to see how we can help?
 

Fergurg

Explorer
No one cares where you draw the line, Maxperson. You have three choices - continue to perpetuate your callous ideology, and be judged poorly for it; reform your ideology into something more compassionate; or stop talking altogether. In the end, you are the one who has to live with the consequences of that choice. You can call our views silly, but that isn't nearly as unflattering as you will be seen by the rest of the world.

There is a 4th choice, one that you won't like. Which is to do what you believe you have done, and that is to resist and fight to overcome.
 

Dannager

First Post
There is a 4th choice, one that you won't like. Which is to do what you believe you have done, and that is to resist and fight to overcome.

That's the first option I laid out - continue to perpetuate your callous ideology, and be judged poorly for it. You can call it "resistance" and cast it in whatever noble light makes you feel better, but it doesn't change the result, and becoming a crusader for an ugly cause isn't a particularly strong strategic move. It's the equivalent of the difference between Everyone's Racist Uncle, and The Local Klan Chapter.

You're right, though - I'm not particularly fond of that choice.
 
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Dannyalcatraz

Schmoderator
Staff member
Supporter
And it is my opinion that just keeping the peace shouldn't be the priority, especially when better options are available.

For venue managers, peacekeeping is the priority because "better options" don't generally exist. Their stats tell them:

1) If they remove the accused (only) from the situation or the entire building, guilty or innocent, the situation is most likely ended.

2) If they remove both accuser and accused, the situation is most likely ended.

3) If they remove the accuser (only), there is a high probability that the accused- if guilty- will continue to cause disruptions.

In other words, in 2/3 of their options, the accused should be removed.

They'd rather not call the cops to sort things out because that disturbs the patrons and- with too many reports- the city might not be too amenable to having your event return. So they separate those involved- occasionally with an ejection, more rarely with a permaban- and hope they don't actually have to go so far as getting someone arrested.

Arrests are bad for business.


And those are reasonable things to do. But these are not "The accusation is the evidence". These are "The accusation gets you put on the radar and they're checking it out for themselves." When they expel, they make sure that it's an offender, not someone who was just accused.

Unless you're talking a new stadium or a casino, most venues do not have the time and manpower to quickly resolve issues of guilt. So, parent-like, they don't often care about actual guilt. They opt for cessation of outbursts and restoration of peace.

In addition, realize that mere harassment is not usually a crime, so the cops aren't going to get involved anyway. If called, they will either do nothing- which does not resolve the situation for the venue or the harassed- or they will (surprise) remove the accused from the premises, usually without an arrest.

If you are indeed accused AND innocent, your best option is compliance...AFTER you make a formal complaint so that you can sue the fraudulent accuser.
 
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Fergurg

Explorer
That's the first option I laid out - continue to perpetuate your callous ideology, and be judged poorly for it. You can call it "resistance" and cast it in whatever noble light makes you feel better, but it doesn't change the result, and becoming a crusader for an ugly cause isn't a particularly strong strategic move.

You seem so convinced that you have already won that you are openly declaring that everybody already agrees with you and that anybody who doesn't has already been crushed.

The surest way to lose a war is to proclaim that you have already won.
 

Dannager

First Post
The surest way to lose a war is to proclaim that you have already won.

I'm quite sure there are a number of far more reliable ways to lose a war.

The nice part is that you don't need to believe me. You're living in the aftermath. This is what it's like. It isn't perfect, yet, or even close. But I'm afraid you can't put the genie back in the bottle.
 

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