West Wing = TV at its best

[Kahuna Burger]

I've been watching reruns on Bravo and have caught a lot of great episodes from different seasons, including what I'm pretty sure was the cliffhanger episode for either last season or the last season bravo has rights to if they are different :

Spoiler

the president's daughter is kidnapped and as a result he hands executive power over to an evil john goodman.

While I like the episodes individually, and have filled in a lot of the blanks, I have two burning questions. If people can answer them it would really help, because without a boxed set of DVDs I can't guarantee when or if I'll catch the right episodes to know...

1) what happened to the vice president?

2) what happened to zoe?

Kahuna Burger

 

[DMScott]

I've been watching reruns on Bravo and have caught a lot of great episodes from different seasons, including what I'm pretty sure was the cliffhanger episode for either last season or the last season bravo has rights to if they are different :

Spoiler

the president's daughter is kidnapped and as a result he hands executive power over to an evil john goodman.

I believe that was last season's cliffhanger, with the plotline continuing for a couple of episodes at the start of this season. I don't think Goodman as president is really worthy of spoiler tags - he did a fantastic job in that role, I wish they'd made him a series regular.

1) what happened to the vice president?

He had to resign after a scandal prior to the cliffhanger (which was why Goodman was next in the line of succession).

2) what happened to zoe?

You sure you want to know? Could be on Bravo in the summer if they're only one season behind...

Spoiler

She's eventually found alive, after a variety of dramatic revelations that cause the first lady to move out of the White House for a while.

Plot points related to that storyline dominate the first half of this season.

 

[jasamcarl]

Well this thread has taken an unfortuate turn...

No matter what you think of the show's message... whether Sorkin's drug use helped his writing or not... I was saying that this past epsoide was arguably the best of the season. The show's not for everybody and its not fantasy or sci-fi but I though this was the best place to say I enjoyed it.

And that I like donuts

Now back to your regularly scheduled hijack...

I wasn't commenting on the politics, but rather the change in the narrative's emphasis. The show has become rather nerdy, insular, and, yes, elitist. It's a negative side of a tendency that was there from the get go, but outright exploded around the Season 3.

The last great episode I recall was the one where they were considering what to do with the (original) vice president and by the end came to understand his P.O.V. That's the type of humanity the show originally had which i feel has been muddled.

 

[Crothian]

I've never really seen it as nerdy, but it was very elitist since the get go. But I thought it worked to show that not just anybody can do the work that it takes to be in the West Wing.

 

[jasamcarl]

I've never really seen it as nerdy, but it was very elitist since the get go. But I thought it worked to show that not just anybody can do the work that it takes to be in the West Wing.

Except that a lot of the elitist conceits had nothing to do with job performance, but rather backslapping allusions to days at Harvard, simplistic references to economic models and historic facts remote from the issues immediatly at hand, and, worst of all, the constant insinuation that the opposition is stupid. This insider jabber is indeed nerdy and serves no other purpose than to allow Sorkin to convince us (and probably himself) that he belongs in that crowd. All of it adds a bit of personality to the show, but, unfortunatly, it seems to have come at the expense drama and character. Sorkin basically became David E. Kelly.

Now, truth be told, I probably agree with him on more issues than not, but that brings me to the major failing of the show; we have a progressive president and staff that pay lip service to liberal values but act like fascists from the word go. It's angry wish fulfillment.

 

[Kahuna Burger]

Except that a lot of the elitist conceits had nothing to do with job performance, but rather backslapping allusions to days at Harvard, simplistic references to economic models and historic facts remote from the issues immediatly at hand, and, worst of all, the constant insinuation that the opposition is stupid.

I don't get that from the show at all. The president is a major nerd who likes to wax tangental, but he's not from harvard, in fact he isn't even Ivy League*. (though the only reason I can get my husband to watch once in a while I think is to see the POTUS in a ND sweatshirt. ) They were smarter than the guy who ran against the president in the second election, but hey, who isn't? There is a little bit of old boy networking, usually with those outside the whitehouse, but hardly a stream of "backslapping allusion to days at harvard"... And they regularly run into supporting or guest characters who are smarter than them either intellectually or tacticly. Then I think about elitist moments on the west wing, the only one that truely springs to mind is Toby writing the second inagural without Sam and declaring that there are only some tiny number of people in the world that can do his job. And that was a great bit, imo.

Anyway, I went to school with the sort of people you seem to be describing, and if I saw that when I watched the west wing, I wouldn't be watching it. Luckily, I don't get that vibe at all, but if you do, I hope it doesn't ruin the show for you - it would for me. :\

*thinking of the bit during the election where a white house counsul is ranting about the ivy league president and Sam tells her what leagues they actually play in - big east for basketball and independant for football, I think. But yeah, it takes brains to go there and I suspect bartlet wasn't even a legacy...

Kahuna Burger

 

[Mistwell]

I really like the show, but the loss of Sorkin was a huge blow for the writing. The new writer(s) seem to think it's a serious show, as opposed to a drama/comedy, and the show suffers for that. Now, every episode people are taking themselves too seriously, the opposition is portrayed as bad stupid people, and the lead actors seem constantly depressed and fighting some epic battle. Before, they laughed at themselves, the opposition was sometimes portrayed as correct, and it was generally a good balance of half comedy and half drama.

I have the most recent episode on Tivo, so I will check it out. I'm happy to hear people liked this one.

By the way, my proposed solution to the writing problem is to move the writers of Gilmore Girls over to the West Wing. For those not familiar with the show, Gilmore Girls is written in the same snappy dialogue methodology as sorkin's shows, but about a totally different subject matter. It's a great show, and I think they could handle writing West Wing quite well.

[Edit - I just watched this most recent episode, and I liked it a lot. Nor did it follow the sterotype I mentioned earlier about the opposition.]