We've seen Armor as DR - anybody do Weapons as Attack Bonus?
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papastebu
First Post
I've never tried anything like this, nor even had it suggested, which is odd, because I am addicted to tinkering with the rules. My take on the meaning of the question is this:
Your character makes an attack roll. To successfully hit, the character has to acheive a score over the opponent's AC. This much is old hat. What I think is being considered here is using the attack roll, plus all relevant modifiers, as a damage roll, also. If the attack roll exceeds the AC, then whatever that number is equals the damage done.
If this is too simplistic an explanation, let me know. The only problem that I would have with it would be that it would be hard to do a decent amount of damage at once. On the flip side, a low-level character with a small weapon, say a 1st-level wizard with a dagger, might actually off a--normally--tough opponent if the opponent's HP are low and the character gets a high roll.
A critical would still be a critical, regardless. Also, applying the strength modifier to damage after the attack roll was made--yes, use it as damage and to-hit modifier, or maybe switch to dexterity for all attacks--might solve the low damage score problem.
If you used the "armor as DR" thing, I'm not sure this idea would work. Then again, as the characters go up in level, they get better at hitting things, in general. So maybe in addition to the "no damage-die" rule and the "armor as DR" rule, you could apply something that was like AC as it stands, but call it "Avoidance Class", and make it get lower with heavier and clunkier armor upgrades, a constantly-applied penalty--"encumbrance"--to movement, so long as the armor is worn, regardless of whether the weight carried exceeds the maximum light load. These three ideas should close the circuit nicely. I haven't tested it yet, of course, because I just thought of it, so YMMV.
Does that help? I hope so.
Steve
P.S. Apparently my long-windedness has allowed someone to beat me to the punch, again. I did forget to mention that the heavier, clunkier armors stop a lot more damage, along with making casting even more difficult than in the PHB's list--I don't like wizards in armor.
Your character makes an attack roll. To successfully hit, the character has to acheive a score over the opponent's AC. This much is old hat. What I think is being considered here is using the attack roll, plus all relevant modifiers, as a damage roll, also. If the attack roll exceeds the AC, then whatever that number is equals the damage done.
If this is too simplistic an explanation, let me know. The only problem that I would have with it would be that it would be hard to do a decent amount of damage at once. On the flip side, a low-level character with a small weapon, say a 1st-level wizard with a dagger, might actually off a--normally--tough opponent if the opponent's HP are low and the character gets a high roll.
A critical would still be a critical, regardless. Also, applying the strength modifier to damage after the attack roll was made--yes, use it as damage and to-hit modifier, or maybe switch to dexterity for all attacks--might solve the low damage score problem.
If you used the "armor as DR" thing, I'm not sure this idea would work. Then again, as the characters go up in level, they get better at hitting things, in general. So maybe in addition to the "no damage-die" rule and the "armor as DR" rule, you could apply something that was like AC as it stands, but call it "Avoidance Class", and make it get lower with heavier and clunkier armor upgrades, a constantly-applied penalty--"encumbrance"--to movement, so long as the armor is worn, regardless of whether the weight carried exceeds the maximum light load. These three ideas should close the circuit nicely. I haven't tested it yet, of course, because I just thought of it, so YMMV.
Does that help? I hope so.
Steve
P.S. Apparently my long-windedness has allowed someone to beat me to the punch, again. I did forget to mention that the heavier, clunkier armors stop a lot more damage, along with making casting even more difficult than in the PHB's list--I don't like wizards in armor.
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rycanada said:
Thanks, i dont mind the secondary rolls, the attraction for me was damage and defense increasing as a warrior gets more skilled, not just as he adds magical toys to his collection. I like systems that reward skill more then gear.
Oh and Papastebu, what i did for thier AC was call it DEFENSE, it constituted of a characters Dex bonus and a level based defense as well as shields and dodge, luck and deflection bonuses it started at base 10 as normal. I scaled defense like a saving throw and depending on whether the character was from a more martially oriented class was whether defense was a good save or a poor save progression.
So heavy armor penalizing DEX did do something to limit thier defense, its been a while but i believe i increased some of the armors penalty by a point, mainly fullplate and one of those clumsy middle ones, either splint or banded mail, whichever is worse in the book ( i dont have the PHB in front of me). It usually didnt drop thier defense by more then a point or two but it also penalized thier initiative, something i find reasonable for a tank.
Sir Brennen
Legend
Doesn't True20 use something like this? Where you do more damage based on how much your Attack rolls exceeds the target's AC? (Or at least as a modify a weapon's base damage?)
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Sir Brennen
Legend
Double post... though I don't know why :\
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ValhallaGH
Explorer
Nope. True20 has a two roll system. Roll attack; if successful then the target rolls a save against damage. How badly the save is failed determines how hurt the target is.Sir Brennen said:
A confirmed critical hit increases the damage, increasing the difficulty of the toughness save.
So, rycanada did want a WoD style attack, where each increment of success beyond the minimum increases the damage dealt.
So why not have weapons simply deal a base amount of damage on a successful attack, and increase the damage depending upon how well the attack succeeds?
Of course, all that math will slow down gameplay, probably about as much as secondary die rolls do. Still, it does tie the success of an attack roll to how damaging the attack is. Something no d20 game I know of does.
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Tonguez
A suffusion of yellow
For Mooks I changed HP so it only has increments of 1 per level
so a basic Orc might have HP 1 whereas the Ogre will have HP 3
Attack is rolled against AC and every successful hit reduces the HP by 1
ie Orcs are instant kills, whereas Ogres require three 'hits'
BBeGs use normal HD and damage rules
so a basic Orc might have HP 1 whereas the Ogre will have HP 3
Attack is rolled against AC and every successful hit reduces the HP by 1
ie Orcs are instant kills, whereas Ogres require three 'hits'
BBeGs use normal HD and damage rules
the Jester
Legend
Huh... interesting idea. Let us know how it works, if you end up using it in play.
Bayonet_Chris
First Post
...
The system I've been working on for the past year also does this. Each weapon has a base damage and minimum strength requirement (if your strength isn't up to the minimum requirement, you suffer a -1 penalty per point of difference - this keeps scrawny types from picking up a huge weapon without penalty).
Since the additional damage is in the attack roll (bab+strength, for melee) you don't need to add strength to the weapon damage - it's already taken into account. Defense increases with level, along with base attack bonus. Armor acts as DR. Some of the base rules are from Grim and Gritty combat (Ken Hood) and I've taken some other rules from various other OGL sources, along with my own ideas.
I'm not going to go into all of it, partly because I'm still tinkering with things and playtesting and partly because it's long.
The system I've been working on for the past year also does this. Each weapon has a base damage and minimum strength requirement (if your strength isn't up to the minimum requirement, you suffer a -1 penalty per point of difference - this keeps scrawny types from picking up a huge weapon without penalty).
Since the additional damage is in the attack roll (bab+strength, for melee) you don't need to add strength to the weapon damage - it's already taken into account. Defense increases with level, along with base attack bonus. Armor acts as DR. Some of the base rules are from Grim and Gritty combat (Ken Hood) and I've taken some other rules from various other OGL sources, along with my own ideas.
I'm not going to go into all of it, partly because I'm still tinkering with things and playtesting and partly because it's long.
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