WH40K Dark Heresy

[Scurvy_Platypus]

All right, here's the part I was thinking of...

Page 43.
Completing all the ranks

Through a combination of skill, caution, and sheer luck, your character may survive the manifold horrors of the 41st Millennium long enough to progress to the top Rank within their career. In game terms, the character who has attained the top Rank of their career is considered to have completed their Career Path. The character has now passed beyond the scope of Dark Heresy, and into the realms of other Warhammer 40,000 roleplaying games.

Given that there's only 2 other games (or at least only 2 other games were slatted for release), it's not a completely crazed idea that one of the next 2 books would in fact cover this ground.

Random note: The book seems to expect characters to get about 200 XP per session. Doing a quick check to see what the "max" XP is for the different classes, and assuming a constant 200 XP per session, and one session per week, it looks like your character will max out in a bit less than about a year and a half of play.

 

[Shining Dragon]

Given that there's only 2 other games (or at least only 2 other games were slatted for release), it's not a completely crazed idea that one of the next 2 books would in fact cover this ground.

Well then Rogue Trader certainly will be interesting when (and if) it gets published. I heard that its mostly written but who knows what FFG plan to do with it (and how much leeway they have with its development).

Either its another Core Book, complete with the basic rules etc. just like Dark Heresy.

Or its a supplement of Dark Heresy that extends the career paths as you mention (thus requiring DH to play) and, pehaps, includes Xeno/Ab-human rules.

Or its an amalgam of the two - which might mean that it tries to cover too much and end up not being very complete.

My understanding was that Rogue Trader and Deathwatch would be stand-alone games. I was originally going to wait for Rogue Trader (bypassing Dark Heresy) based on that understanding.

Random note: The book seems to expect characters to get about 200 XP per session. Doing a quick check to see what the "max" XP is for the different classes, and assuming a constant 200 XP per session, and one session per week, it looks like your character will max out in a bit less than about a year and a half of play.

Not many campaigns go for much longer.... well the ones I've been in haven't. I expected that advanced careers would appear in a supplement (Inquisitors Handbook, for example, but I don't think they do based on the brief blurb on FFG site.... insert mutterings about the poor distribution service by FFG).

 

[Scurvy_Platypus]

I was a little surprised at how happy folks were about FFG picking up the books. I guess the fans figure that it's better than nothing.

In the past though, FFG hasn't really impressed me with it's RPG handling. The games themselves seem to be solid enough usually, it's just that the...followup?... seems lacking. At least, if you're into a game because of new suppliments being published. And a while back, they'd actually declared they were simply getting out of RPGs entirely. They seem to have reveresed their stance, but it makes me a bit cautious about 'em.

Midnight is the only one of their rpgs to actually be popular.

Blue Planet started out good, and then ground to a halt. It's got a small fan base and has a solid set of sci-fi rules. It gets almost no love from gamers though.

Fireborn seems to be a sad case of a good setting with an interesting (and solid) enough rulesystem, but they shouldn't be together. The setting is going in one direction, and the rules go in a different one. People hammer the game because of the mismatch, and blow past its potential.

Grimm was announced as being redone as a stand alone product some time ago and has only now come out. So far there seems to be some minor love for it, but it's also brand new so there's the "magpie" factor (people chasing the shiny). Give it 6 months and we'll see how it's actually managed to hold on. It was about the only one of their mini d20 games that got any kind of traction.

Their Dawnforge fantasy setting seems to have been pretty much ignored by the market.

Dragonstar has some fans, but not much was really done with this. Lots of potential that just disappeared.

Anima still hasn't come out. Yeah they had a problem with the first (and maybe second) translator, but it's not like they actually had to develop the game. Last heard, it's newest date is sometime in the fall. There's a card game and a miniature game all wrapped up in this thing. From the bit that I've heard of the rpg rules I know I'm not interested in it, despite Anima having some fantastic art. Anyone that thinks d20 is complicated/fiddly is going to want to gouge out their eyes.

Fantasy Flight Games really seems to be more of a boardgame company. They've sort of slipped back over to doing rpgs again, but their money makers aren't rpgs. I _really_ think the only reason FFG picked up the 40k bit is because of them becoming the exclusive publisher of board games and card games using GW's IP. Not just the new stuff either, but the older stuff as well.

I think they made the calculated decision that the boardgame stuff would be worth a fair amount of potential profit, and so they went for the deal. The rpg books for 40k are already mostly (completely?) written as I understand it, so they don't even have to invest too much there.

Given just how many different directions FFG is going, their past history with rpgs, their strong investment and focus on boardgames (with dips into CCGs and miniatures), and their exclusive rights to do boardgames (new and classic) using GW's stuff? I think there's going to be some rather disappointed fans in the future. I also notice that FFG didn't/doesn't have anything about Warhammer Fantasy. I'm not sure exactly what that means, but I do find it interesting that they don't have the fantasy property, but do have the 40k side of things. Maybe it's just a non-issue at this point, since 4E (love it or not) is probably going to be dominating rpg talk for a while once it gets released. After things calm down a bit, maybe Warhammer will get some news or picked up by some company or something.

I kinda hope I'm wrong. I've got a love/hate relationship with the DH book, but it seems like plenty of online folks just love it.

 

[Cergorach]

FFG did very well with their D20 RPG books, those were widely distributed. Their settings (besides Midnight) were popular one shots (they even did a D20 line of one shots). Not every company can support a line like FR or Eberron, WotC even dropped their other setting lines themselves, and WotC is also moving into the limited setting (three books for each setting were mentioned on the frontpage).

Keep in mind that WHFRP and DH were made by a team of freelance writers, thus the end of Black Industries didn't affect the writing pool much. FFG can keep on using the same creative pool that BI was using. Add to that the enormous popularity of Warhammer (40k), FFG should be very motivated to produce quality supplements (if the instantanious sell out of DH is any indication). BI wasn't releasing large amounts of books a year for WHFRP ('only' 24 supplements released in three years). Since February 2008 there are already four supplements out (Games Master's Kit; Character Folio; Purge the Unclean; Inquisitor's Handbook), and there are others still planned, I think it's a bit early to complain. Although the Doomsaying is in character for 40k ;-)

 

[Scurvy_Platypus]

FFG should be very motivated to produce quality supplements (if the instantanious sell out of DH is any indication).

I keep seeing people saying this. Where does it come from? The only "instaneous" sell out that I know of was actually the limited edition print. That sold out in something like 6 minutes when it went up on their site. That was 200 copies. Considering the overall popularity of 40k, it doesn't surprise me that speculators, collectors, rpg fans, and fans of the 40k setting all showed up to try and get a piece of that pie.

After that, they were doing pre-orders. A month after that they started doing the preorders, they said that they were sold out and folks would have to get the books from their FLGS. There's no indication just how big the print run was, nor how many pre-orders were done.

BI wasn't releasing large amounts of books a year for WHFRP ('only' 24 supplements released in three years). Since February 2008 there are already four supplements out (Games Master's Kit; Character Folio; Purge the Unclean; Inquisitor's Handbook), and there are others still planned, I think it's a bit early to complain. Although the Doomsaying is in character for 40k ;-)

I've got no idea about Warhammer fantasy. I've never known anyone in 20 years that played it. I just thought it interesting that the Warhammer Fantasy game seems to be in limbo right now, instead of going along to FFG like 40k did. I don't know if it's because the property is going to someone else, because FFG had to pick one, because they figure Warhammer Fantasy should get sorted out after the 4e D&D hoopla dies down, or what.

As for the other stuff... FFG hasn't actually been responsible for developing any of that. I've got no idea about the status of the writers of Dark Heresy (freelance or GW employees), so it's possible they could wind up using 'em.

And does a GM screen and packet of character sheets actually count as "supplements"? I guess they do, but I don't think that's the sort of thing that most people on the buying treadmill are really after. *shrug*

I'm not doom-saying here, at least I don't think so. I was simply saying I was surprised at how everyone reacted to news that FFG had got the rights to do the DH game and why I was surprised. I'm certainly not complaining that not enough books have been released. I'm not actually buying any rpg books until next year, and even when I start buying books again, I don't know if I'll bother picking up any of the other DH books. If they've got enough non-rules stuff in 'em I might.

 

[Shining Dragon]

I also notice that FFG didn't/doesn't have anything about Warhammer Fantasy. I'm not sure exactly what that means, but I do find it interesting that they don't have the fantasy property, but do have the 40k side of things. Maybe it's just a non-issue at this point, since 4E (love it or not) is probably going to be dominating rpg talk for a while once it gets released. After things calm down a bit, maybe Warhammer will get some news or picked up by some company or something.

AFAIK FFG does have WFRP. They do now host the forum for it.

It does appear WFRP is not high on their agenda at this moment.