What abilities are abusable if reusable?

[RangerWickett]

In my planning for an update of Elements of Magic, I'm trying to identify possible problem effects, things that won't easily fit into a "pay x magic points, get y effect" model.

Where this typically becomes a problem is scaling between short duration and long-duration effects, and the difference between single-use abilities and infinite-use ones. For instance, gaining +4 AC for a minute, dealing 1d6 damage with a bolt of energy, healing 1d6 damage, and creating water for one person might all be about the same power level, somewhere around a 1st level spell.

However, consider how different their power becomes if you change the number of times they can be used, or their duration. Giving +4 AC to hundreds of people one at a time isn't useful if the spell only lasts a minute, but healing 1d6 damage hundreds of times is amazing. Dealing 1d6 damage hundreds of times isn't much better than swinging a sword hundreds of times, but no mundane effect can simply create enough water for an entire village.

I mean, my players always joke that they just need enough GP to buy a lyre of building and a decanter of endless water, and they could go off and start their own kingdom. So what sorts of magic is problematic if you can use it a lot, or if you can make it last a long time? I've got a few in mind:

healing
teleportation
divination (one question a day is hard to abuse, but with twenty questions it's hard not to solve any mystery)
creation or building effects

What are others?

 

[EricNoah]

Anything that gives a great big huge bonus for a very short duration. True strike, I'm looking at you.

I guess anything that gets better the more you cast it. Mage Armor isn't any more help if you cast it 10 times on yourself. Healing, as you say, can be very helpful if you cast it 10 times on yourself (assuming you're really hurt).

Anything that answers questions for you, as you say.

Anything that essentially lasts forever when it is done (walls of stone, even a continual flame spell).

 

[painandgreed]

Anything useable is abuseable.

Using Savage Species, our DM had a real trouble with the incubbus. Detect Thought, Alter Self, Charm monster, and Teleport at will really messed with her plans. We'd kill the BBEG and he'd alter self to take his place and march into the BBEG's office and call for his 2nd in commands. He'd Detect Thoughts on them to see if they were suspicious. Then begin charming them all and using Detect Thoughts to see if it works. If not, he'd Charm Monster again. So, everybody in command was charmed and those that weren't were disposed of. Eventually, it didn't even matter if he kept up the charade of being the BBEG. Teleport wasn't that big a deal because he couldn't teleport anybody else, but then he got a cage that could imprison other creatures in it. Since it was an item, he could suck the rest of the party into it one at a time and shuttle us anywhere we needed to go.

It really made a mess of the DMs plans as she was not used to playing with characters with thos abilites. Almost all the bad guys ended up having to get something to block their thoughts. Even my pixie with fly and invisiblity caused some issues. Many traps and even dungeons are renedered useless or trivial when half the party can fly and carry the other half. Basically any at will power will cause issues if you haven't thought out the ramifications, especially with other effects. Even the throw 1d6 bolt of energy becomes an issue if found in a situation where everybody else is unarmed or a position where they can constantly rain attacks upon an ememy who has no ranged attack since there is no ammo limit.

 

[diaglo]

anything that is "at will"

detect evil paladin ability i'm looking at you.

any of the spell like abilities that monsters have "at will"

abilities like no sleeping, no eating, no criticals, no flanking, no means no. they can be so abused.

 

[Graf]

anything that is "at will"

detect evil paladin ability i'm looking at you.

any of the spell like abilities that monsters have "at will"

abilities like no sleeping, no eating, no criticals, no flanking, no means no. they can be so abused.

I’m gonna stand up and say that “no eating” is not particularly abusable.
Usually things that don’t eat (Warforged) have lots of other great powers that can be frustrating but just “no eating” isn’t a big deal.

 

[Ciaran]

Transmutation and destruction effects. Destroying a cubic foot of stone or turning a copper piece into gold is fine by itself, but when scaled up, you can gnaw away a castle's foundations or make a fortune in gold.

 

[Nyeshet]

I’m gonna stand up and say that “no eating” is not particularly abusable.

I'm not so certain of this. In a campaign that involves a wilderness trek through difficult regions (deserts, swamps, etc) running out of (edible) food or drinkable water should be a concern. Maybe not a major concern, but a concern nonetheless. So being able to go a day without food should have a cost, albeit not necessarily a major one.

Of course, I'm also of the opinion that the rules for Survival checks - specifically the one for finding food (10 = enough for self, every +2 over = enough for +1 other) is too low. The check should allow one to find tracks, to follow the tracks (say one check per hour) and eventually have a chance for surprise when confronting the animal. Then a minor combat round or three should occur in which the animal is slain, and another check or two (perhaps different skills) is used to deal with the carcass (skin it perhaps, remove any non-edible parts, gather trophies such as antlers, fangs, teeth, or carveable bones) after which perhaps a Survival check or two would be needed to find the way back to camp - or find a place to set up camp if it had not yet been already set up. All of this should take at least an hour of game time - perhaps more if the animal was some distance off, unusually difficult to track (due to the animals' abilities or the type of terrain or the weather, etc).

Survival could also be used to find edible roots, but in a desert surrounded by sand for miles there wouldn't be much chance of success. If in a swamp, Survival may help you find potentially edible plants readily enough, but then there is the check - knowledge (nature) or perhaps survival with a -2 or even -4 penalty - to determine if the plants found are edible, poisonous, perhaps diseased, or need to be treated prior to consumption (such as boiling to remove minor toxins, as is done with some types of acorns).

A magical ability that allows one to get around all of this should have a cost. It should not be a minor, negligible cost. On the other hand, it should not be a burdensome cost for, say, a fifth level caster. A notable cost, yes, but not a burdensome one - unless applied to the entire party. Then it should be burdensome at fifth level, notable at maybe seventh or eighth level, and negligible around perhaps tenth to twelth level.

That's my take on it, anyway.

I admit that my view is somewhat different from the core view, which allows one to feed the entire party - if in a forest or a field - with a simple DC 16 Survival check (10 for self, +6 for 3 others). Poor weather or attempting it in winter may add a few more points to the DC, but the fact remains that rolling a 20 (total, not natural) Survival check will negate the need for having food and water for the day for a party in the more common terrains (field, forest) in most or all seasons.

That is simply far too lenient on the PCs, in my opinion. They should work for their supper if they weren't foresightful enough to bring it with them.

 

[der_kluge]

Cure Minor Wounds comes to mind.

In Artificer's Handbook, we circumvented a lot of problems by stating the personal spells could not be placed into a magic item. That solved a whole boatload of problems.

 

[humble minion]

Something I've always wondered about is the Beguiling Influence warlock invocation from Complete Arcane. It gives a +6 bonus to Diplomacy, Bluff, and Intimidate for 24 hours, but the bonus is untyped, which means it stacks with itself. It only takes a standard action to activate the invocation, so theoretically you could spend an hour or so using Beguiling Influence every round, and then spend the rest of the day with Diplomacy, Intimidate, and Bluff modifiers at approximately +3600, and then go talk Demogorgon into worshipping Eldath or something.

(Yes, I'm sure it's been errataed somewhere, but it sure struck me as abusable on first glance...)

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Everything that effects multiple persons can be abusable.
Anything that grants bonuses to d20 rolls that:
- stack with anything else
- grant bonus beyond 2 points (Regardless of level!)
If they stack with iself, they are probably "auto-broken".

Something I've always wondered about is the Beguiling Influence warlock invocation from Complete Arcane. It gives a +6 bonus to Diplomacy, Bluff, and Intimidate for 24 hours, but the bonus is untyped, which means it stacks with itself. It only takes a standard action to activate the invocation, so theoretically you could spend an hour or so using Beguiling Influence every round, and then spend the rest of the day with Diplomacy, Intimidate, and Bluff modifiers at approximately +3600, and then go talk Demogorgon into worshipping Eldath or something.

(Yes, I'm sure it's been errataed somewhere, but it sure struck me as abusable on first glance...)

Maybe it is not spelled out specifically for Invocation, but generelly, if the same spell (or spellike ability) gives a bonus, it doesn't stack (but overlap). (So, Multiple Healing and Damage spells "stack", but a spell that gives a +6 bonus to breaking doors would not). I am lazy, so I count on someone else to point out the reference in the PHB (for spell effects) or the Complete Arcane.