What Abilities Should Monster PCs get?

[Stogoe]

I'd also say Warriors Surge should be this(since this is how it is for the orcs themselves):

Warrior’s Surge (standard, usable only while bloodied; encounter)
✦ Healing, Weapon
The orc makes a melee basic attack and expends 1 healing surge its Second Wind.

I agree with Hellzon - it'll use up your Second Wind. But otherwise I agree.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

I don't think it will use up your Second Wind, since that would be a very sub-par ability that you have to waste your attack and your Racial Power on something you can do without being bloodied or attacking.

I could see it as either a Healing Surge, or perhaps a Temporary Healing Surge (lasts the encounter, and doesn't take away a Surge). This I think would really represent the feeling of the Orc getting furious and simply shrugging aside blows.

 

[Graf]

great thread. Very thought provoking.

Warriors surge should give you the option to use your second wind if you haven't already. That way it balances vs dwarf but keeps its flavor.

 

[Wolfwood2]

Gnome PCs:
low-light vision
Fade Away: (encounter, Illusion) As an immediate reaction, when the gnome takes damage from any source, the gnome turns invisible until it attacks or until the end of its next turn (whichever comes first.)

 

[Kordeth]

I don't think it will use up your Second Wind, since that would be a very sub-par ability that you have to waste your attack and your Racial Power on something you can do without being bloodied or attacking.

Err, I think you're getting things backward here--this power wouldn't force you to waste your attack, it lets you attack in the same round you use second wind--remember, for everyone except dwarves, second wind as a standard action. This particular power, I think, is nicely balanced with the dwarf's ability--the dwarf can potentially use a better attack (since he can use an attack power), but the orc's doesn't cost him an action at all--he still has his minor action to do something with.

 

[Flazzy]

Recall however that using second wind also grants you a +2 to defenses till the end of the round, something that Warrior's Surge does not.

 

[Kordeth]

Recall however that using second wind also grants you a +2 to defenses till the end of the round, something that Warrior's Surge does not.

Err--the proposed version of Warrior's Surge we're talking about is a use of Second Wind, so yes, it does give you the defense bonus.

 

[Lacyon]

Err, I think you're getting things backward here--this power wouldn't force you to waste your attack, it lets you attack in the same round you use second wind--remember, for everyone except dwarves, second wind as a standard action. This particular power, I think, is nicely balanced with the dwarf's ability--the dwarf can potentially use a better attack (since he can use an attack power), but the orc's doesn't cost him an action at all--he still has his minor action to do something with.

I think this ends up making it too much worse than the dwarf's ability.

Orc gets a basic melee attack + second wind + move action + minor

Dwarf gets a standard action + move action + second wind.

So, any time the dwarf has a standard action power that's better than the orc's basic melee attack + minor action, he's got an advantage. Any time the PC wants to use an encounter or daily power, the Dwarf in that situation has an advantage over the Orc. Likewise if the PC is in a position where he wants to trade down his standard action to double move in while healing up with Second Wind. Likewise any time the PC doesn't have a minor action that makes up the difference between a basic melee attack and an at-will power. Likewise any time the character wants to make a ranged attack instead of melee.

The orc is only better off in the situation where the PC wants to use a particularly awesome minor-action ability and can't spare trading down the move action to do it.

I don't think it's overpowered to let the orc do this once and get a second wind sometime during the encounter, if he really wants.

 

[Lurker59]

Another possiblity is to make it an encounter power that allows a basic melee attack and gives temporary hp equal to a healing surge.

 

[Graf]

Giving an Orc an extra free healing surge (so he gets two and everyone else gets one) AND and extra free attack is much more powerful than any existing pc race's ability.

If you're having trouble figuring out why then run two otherwise identical dwarf and (your version of an) Orc against each other.
Your Orc will win 80+% of the time. If your confused about why just read the economy of actions article on wotc's home page and remember that you've effectively given your Orc 25% more hit points.

If you're try to argue it should be balanced some other way (subpar ability bonuses) you might be onto something... But an extra free healing surge not being more valuable? If you think that I think you're confused about how the system works.