D&D 5E What about D&D 5e levels 21-30?

[dave2008]

I'm kinda surprised every offering on DM's Guild is going the 21-30 + level route, and no one has developed an 'epic boons' supplement (E20), considering that's the "official" way.
I'm also kinda sad it doesn't look like you'll be developing it, Dave, with the new direction you're taking your epic work (pun intended).

I total forgot that this started out by creating some additional epic boons. That was indeed what I originally wanted to do! I guess my passion for the old Immortal Rules eventually swayed me over to the dark side. I simple system of boons to go from lvl 20 mortal to demigod to god.

Now I've got epic ranks, Authority, Influence, Auras, etc., etc. Probably gotten a little complex for my own good. Maybe after I get the first year or so of the zine out I can review it, streamline it, and publish an improved version as a book. It still wouldn't be the boon system though. I do still really like that system for increasing mortals to demigod like status.

 

[dave2008]

I'm kinda surprised every offering on DM's Guild is going the 21-30 + level route, and no one has developed an 'epic boons' supplement (E20), considering that's the "official" way.

One of the supplements does in fact make use of the boon and alternate ASI/Feat advancement in the DMG.

Spoiler

It just adds class features too.

 

[Campbell]

In general I do not think it would be a good idea to extend the core system even further without making any adjustments. At higher levels it is already starting to wear thin, particularly with Expertise in the mix. The vast difference is PC skills and saving throw proficiency are already problematic enough.

 

[S'mon]

Running at 20 I definitely prefer the Boons system to continued levelling. I like how CR 1-20 creatures remain a threat in an E20 game. And I think RoT Tiamat is plenty tough enough as-is!

My general model for Epic play is The Iliad, where heroes can contend with gods and yet masses of spear carriers remain a threat.

I think a lot of Epic material is created without playtesting and more to look nice & follow progressions than with regard to actual play. And probably sold mostly to people who don't actually use it, too. For me the genius of 5e is that it prioritises actual play over theoretical coherence. When I ran 'Epic' deity level 1e AD&D with Upper_Krust & co back in the '80s-'90s I was ad hoc creating what worked, not developing a theoretical system. 1e has inherent elements that make unlimited level play viable; 3e-4e-5e don't, and better suit an E20 (or E30) approach.

 

[S'mon]

In general I do not think it would be a good idea to extend the core system even further without making any adjustments. At higher levels it is already starting to wear thin, particularly with Expertise in the mix.

Yeah, even at E20 I see a fair number of PCs who can auto-hit a DC 30, such as STR 30 Barbarians 'rolling' Athletics or high-stat Rogue with Reliable Talent (though our Rogue's auto-succeeds are still mostly in the 24-28 range at present - but with a stat of 30 & Expertise he could auto hit a 32).

 

[Matrix Sorcica]

One of the supplements does in fact make use of the boon and alternate ASI/Feat advancement in the DMG.

Spoiler

View attachment 113862

It just adds class features too.

Which one is that (and is it any good?)?

 

[dave2008]

Which one is that (and is it any good?)?

Epic Options by Gerard Shore. It has pretty good ratings, but it ultimately not what I am looking for. Also Epic Characters by Marc Altfuldisch is very similar (I believe Gerard mimiced Marc's earlier work if I remember correctly) in that it provides ASIs that can be swapped out for a feat or boon. That product is an Adamantine seller, as 4.5/5 stars with 90 ratings so I guess it is pretty good.