D&D General What Actually Is Copyright Protected In The SRD?

[Paul Farquhar]

I don't know of any evidence that WotC has failed to protect their trademarks since they revoked the D20 system licence.

As further evidence, my I enter Knights of the Old Republic? This uses a D20 based ruleset (although I don't know if it was licenced at the time). It has D&Ds ability scores, with the same range and bonus system, classes levels, hp, sneak attack D6's etc.

You can still legally buy KotOR.

 

[pemerton]

As further evidence, my I enter Knights of the Old Republic? This uses a D20 based ruleset (although I don't know if it was licenced at the time). It has D&Ds ability scores, with the same range and bonus system, classes levels, hp, sneak attack D6's etc.

You can still legally buy KotOR.

What WotC-owned trademark does KoTOR use without a licence?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

What WotC-owned trademark does KoTOR use without a licence?

As I said, I don't know if they used the D20 (third edition) licence or not, but if it's not licenced, it ripped off a whole lot of core D&D design elements unchallenged, and if it is, that licence is no longer current.

 

[FrogReaver]

You mean "whether deauthorizing the OGL (assuming it's a total deauthorization) opens up WOTC to claims of Fraud from many of those companies you mention"?

I don't know much about the tort of fraud in US jurisdictions. I also don't know what "total deauthorisation" means - if you are talking about WotC exercising a legal power that it enjoys, then that can't be fraudulent unless it raises an estoppel or similar sort of claim. This is one of the thoughts that underpinned my reply just upthread.

Makes more sense.

I was thinking 2 things with my question.

1. If WOTC did win on their deautorizaiton/revocation OGL claims, then all their statements to the contrary that stood online for years would be evidence that they deceived and misled the users of the OGL. So worst case for 3pp is they could likely be reimbursed for loses due to the change. In fraud in the U.S. it clearly matters what promises and reassurances were made to a person. This potential for a fraud claim also provides 3pp some leverage over the OGL situation.

2. As a legal strategy for the community it might be easier to pursue the fraud claims first. Fraud claims wouldn't be required to wait on individualized action from WOTC - their statement that it's deauthorized/revoked and any monetary damage afterwards due to trying to comply would be enough for standing according to my understanding. It puts WOTC on defense so to speak and prevents them from targeting companies 1 at a time. Also, the chance a fraud claim succeeds in this situation seems higher than the chance the license claims succeed. Not that the contract case isn't good, but the fraud case is a slam dunk. After some company has done this, another could challenge the legitimacy of WOTC's interpretation of the OGL assuming WOTC even wants to push the issue at that point. If WOTC did sue any other company for copyright infringement for using OGL 1.0a still they would then countersue for fraud while also defending against WOTC's claims.

 

[Clint_L]

I don't know much about the law but I know that proving fraud is a lot more complicated than you are suggesting, and the notion a fraud case would be "a slam dunk" seems highly, highly, unlikely. None of the actual lawyers who have been discussing these issues have made any mention about fraud.

Fraud is a serious charge, potentially a felony, and I would be very, very cautious about throwing that word around. I remind again that Hasbro/WotC have plenty of talented lawyers, so it's not like they are just going to commit fraud by accident or something. Non-lawyers opining on legal issues is not really helpful, IMO.

 

[teitan]

This isn't arguable. WotC haven't failed to enforce their claims to their IP - they have constantly asserted it, and nearly everyone who has published a D&D-related product in the past 20 years has included a section 15 statement expressly acknowledging WotC's copyright in their SRD.

These publishers used the OGL. They expressly acknowledged WotC's IP, and were licensed by WotC to reproduce their copyrighted text.

I don't know of any evidence that WotC has failed to protect their trademarks since they revoked the D20 system licence. They are currently suing another company and associated persons in order to protect some of their trademarks.

I’m talking about in the context of what’s in the SRD. Context man. If someone published something just because it was in the monster manual and Wizards failed to catch it was just an example of the ONLY way the OGL could arguably possibly be used to justify using their IP. You’re argument seems to be everyone pays attention to the nearly 400 page SRD.

 

[pemerton]

As I said, I don't know if they used the D20 (third edition) licence or not, but if it's not licenced, it ripped off a whole lot of core D&D design elements unchallenged, and if it is, that licence is no longer current.

Are you talking about the video game? The Wikipedia page includes the following quote from one of the production team: "We wanted to create something that combined the strategic aspects of our Baldur's Gate series and Neverwinter Nights but which presented it through fast, cinematic 3D action".

This makes me assume that Bioware had a licence from TSR and/or WotC.

 

[teitan]

As I said, I don't know if they used the D20 (third edition) licence or not, but if it's not licenced, it ripped off a whole lot of core D&D design elements unchallenged, and if it is, that licence is no longer current.

It didn’t use the D20 STL and wouldn’t now because it’s been rescinded.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

It didn’t use the D20 STL and wouldn’t now because it’s been rescinded.

So you can argue based on KotOR that the vast majority of third edition rules are public domain. And hence anything in 5e or OneD&D that is the same as 3e (such as ability scores, hit points, armour class, sneak attack damage etc) is also public domain.

Like, if I use action, movement, and bonus action, as my action economy, is that in the danger zone?

What about, like, the 6 stats, even if a couple are renamed and they work differently from any edition of dnd?

You are fine using any of this.

 

[Zardnaar]

What WotC-owned trademark does KoTOR use without a licence?

If OGL goes away it's ability score system, skill system, feats and class structure are from 3.0.