What alignment are the cops on The Shield?

[Michael Dean]

I guess I've always viewed the show as a tragedy. Every season has been tightening the noose around Vic and the Strike Team because of the shooting in the first episode. I've always assumed that in the end, Vic (if not the whole team) was going to die to pay for their sins, or more specifically, to pay for murdering Terry. Season 5 explicitly comes full circle and brings it back to the first episode, but for every move they've made in previous seasons to extricate themselves, they get deeper into making more bad choices. The money train, the fight with the Armenians, etc.. And those bad choices have led inevitably to season 5, where all hell is breaking loose.

As far as alignment goes, I just can't put Vic in the Good category. I disagree that he is Evil with a capital E, because I think he has always been horrified that he made the choice to murder Terry, but because he is deeply flawed, he keeps justifying it to himself so he can sleep at night. Season 5 was the payback season, where I think he finally is realizing that he will pay the price for Terry, and in fact, already has begun to pay the bill.

 

[DonTadow]

I'm going to step on that thin limb and say none. The shield is the perfect example of how alignment doesnt work and is a silly concept. There are too many variables.

Vick is good to those he likes and the law. Heck, how many CIs hashe put his neck out for. How far will he go to keep the streets clean. How many episodes have we seen where vick has taken up a personal cause against someone who "killed a cop, killed a kid, raped a little girl, messed with his family". If he was evil he probably wouldn't care. Also, vick won't kill someone unless its his last resort. Remember during the money train where he could have easily killed the guy they blamed it on and had him disappear. Well, he didnt do it and it costed him.

Vick is evil to those whom oppose him. Drug dealers, fellow cops, administrators. Vick has killed a number of people and hurt many more.

Vick is lawful when it comes to his own rules. HE follows them. He doesnt let drug dealers deal to kids. They have to follow his personal zoning. HE doesnt makes sure the street gangs follow his rules. He follows the law to a tee and makes sure he knows exactly how much to do to stay within the boundaries of the law. How many times has he stopped shane from going too far or stopped himself. The only time i can think he went to far is burning old dudes face. Even the shooting in the first episode was seen as lawful. Among cops, as far as the mythos of teh show, you don't rat on another cop.

The only thing I'd say vick isn't is chaotic. He pretty much always seems in control, though there are times where he's lost it.

 

[Twowolves]

I...

Okay you guys win.

The IAD officer who's job it is to ferret out corrupt cops deserved to die at the hands of a corrupt cop. I mean, Vic is actually a dirty cop. Wasnt the argument made a few times upthread that Vic's actions are justified because the guys he's doing to are bad guys anyway? But an Internal Affairs Cop, is the bad guy? So I guess undercover cops who's job it is to put thier lives on the line to catch criminals deserve to die if the get found out too right? Because anyway you guys dress it up, Vic Mackey? He's a cold-blooded criminal who just happens to have a badge. And when you have guys like that running around, it's IAD's job to take him out of circulation. Terry was getting something extra because the department has suspected that Vic was involved in a lot of dirty stuff but have been unable to catch him in the act. If Crowley succeeded where so many have obviously failed then yes, he was offered something extra for that. But whew...glad he didnt, because it turns out that he was a lying scumbag anyway and deserved to be a slugcatcher. Got it.

I repeat...you people are frackin' SCARY.

Maybe you should go back and watch the first episode again. Terry was NOT IAD, he was working for Aceveda alone. Aceveda was trying to pin Vic, but only to advance his own agenda, just like he does when he chooses to team up with Vic later on in the show.

I'm not saying he deserved to get shot, but I do know that the "Blue Wall" is a very real phenominon. Crowley and Aceveda were working outside the department's mandates with no official IAD involvement. They were circumventing the system to get what they personally wanted, which is what Vic was doing, only to a greater degree.

Nobody on that show is squeaky clean, just varying shades of dirty. Aceveda and Crowley chose to go into that world, knowing what the stakes were, and play their game, and got beat by Vic and the Strike Team every time.

 

[Michael Dean]

I'm going to step on that thin limb and say none. The shield is the perfect example of how alignment doesnt work and is a silly concept. There are too many variables.

I agree completely. I mean, in D&D terms if someone cast detect evil, the whole damn station would be pinging like a pinball machine, except for maybe Claudette. Maybe alignment works in a heroic fantasy setting where everything is drawn in clear cut terms, but it is clearly insufficient to describe the characters in this show, particularly since they cross a lot of alignment boundaries given different situations.

On a side note, I'm dying to know if this new season is supposed to be the last or if there is one more slated. This is definitely the type of show that needs a clear ending to the story. I somehow can't imagine Vic retiring in the series finale and becoming a security guard at Sears. The writers have already shown that they can do anything to anyone so I expect an amazing close to this show.

 

[ShinHakkaider]

Maybe you should go back and watch the first episode again. Terry was NOT IAD, he was working for Aceveda alone. Aceveda was trying to pin Vic, but only to advance his own agenda, just like he does when he chooses to team up with Vic later on in the show.

I'm not saying he deserved to get shot, but I do know that the "Blue Wall" is a very real phenominon. Crowley and Aceveda were working outside the department's mandates with no official IAD involvement. They were circumventing the system to get what they personally wanted, which is what Vic was doing, only to a greater degree.

Nobody on that show is squeaky clean, just varying shades of dirty. Aceveda and Crowley chose to go into that world, knowing what the stakes were, and play their game, and got beat by Vic and the Strike Team every time.

Fine. Being that the last time I watched the first episode was when it premiered 5 years ago, I'll admit to a semi-fuzzy memory as to if Terry was IAD or not. Since you seemed to have watched recently, what WAS Aceveda's motive for sending Terry after Vic and the Strike Team? Anyone else is free to answer by the way.

Edit: also wasnt the DOJ involved in Vic's investigation at some point?

 

[ShinHakkaider]

On a side note, I'm dying to know if this new season is supposed to be the last or if there is one more slated. This is definitely the type of show that needs a clear ending to the story. I somehow can't imagine Vic retiring in the series finale and becoming a security guard at Sears. The writers have already shown that they can do anything to anyone so I expect an amazing close to this show.

The 6th Season was supposed to have been the last season, but it go renewed again for a 7th and final season.

 

[HeavenShallBurn]

I agree completely. I mean, in D&D terms if someone cast detect evil, the whole damn station would be pinging like a pinball machine, except for maybe Claudette. Maybe alignment works in a heroic fantasy setting where everything is drawn in clear cut terms, but it is clearly insufficient to describe the characters in this show, particularly since they cross a lot of alignment boundaries given different situations.

I don't know maybe it could be that they're ALL evil? Every last one of them either by action or inaction.

 

[Twowolves]

Fine. Being that the last time I watched the first episode was when it premiered 5 years ago, I'll admit to a semi-fuzzy memory as to if Terry was IAD or not. Since you seemed to have watched recently, what WAS Aceveda's motive for sending Terry after Vic and the Strike Team? Anyone else is free to answer by the way.

Edit: also wasnt the DOJ involved in Vic's investigation at some point?

Between me and my brother-in-law, we have the first 4 seasons on DVD. My wife didn't start watching until season 4, so we started from the beginning to catch her up. I've seen the first episode a few times.

Aceveda was trying to bring Mackie down, but only because he was trying to be known as the guy who "cleaned up" Farmington, a feather in his cap on his way to being elected Councilman. Which he ended up doing by working with Vic instead of against him. Thus my assertation that Aceveda was really just in it for personal gain.

I do feel sorry for Terry, though. He wasn't (as far as I remember) trained to go undercover. Aceveda did have a fed with him, but it was an old buddy and he was acting unoffically. I believe he was there to offer Terry a federal position in a city of his choice on the east coast if he succeeded. I believe the official line was "not enough evidence to bring a case, but if you dig something up, we'll have a look".

In Season 4, when Glen Close is captain, she starts an IAD investigation into the strike team, not to nab them, but to clear them. During all this season, Vic kept his nose clean (while Shane was trying to run his own show and screwing up at every turn) in order to get the strike team put back together. He walks a pretty straight and narrow line, and I'm pretty sure he was hoping to get out of the dirty stuff free and clear, but Shane screwed that up (as I recall). The internal investigation was supposed to ease her mind that the guys were clean (or at least, were clean now). In the final episode of that season, she tries to subtlely warn Vic what's coming, but it doesn't dawn on him until several episodes into Season 5.

 

[Storm Raven]

Maybe you should go back and watch the first episode again. Terry was NOT IAD, he was working for Aceveda alone. Aceveda was trying to pin Vic, but only to advance his own agenda, just like he does when he chooses to team up with Vic later on in the show.

And?

How does that justify shooting another officer in the face to cover up your own crimes? Regardless of what Aceveda's motivations were when he put Terry up to the job, he wanted to clean up corruption in Farmington. The fact that he wanted to also be seen as cbeing the guy responsible for cleaning up Farmington for self-interested reasons does not change the fact that he and Terry were "correct" and Vic was a cold-blooded murderer.

And the reason Aceveda and Terry were working outside the normal IAD structure was that that structure had been compromised - remember Vic's Deputy Chief buddy who was feeding him information? More to the point, Vic didn't just kill Terry. He covered up murders. He led the team to kill a completely unrelated and innocent individual to cover up robbing the Armenian money train. He hid evidence that would put criminals behind bards, criminals who later killed innocent people. He facilitated gang murders. He has broken just about every law, and many times innocent people have gotten hurt.

Would you want Mackey working in your town, policing your streets? I thought not.

 

[Twowolves]

And?

How does that justify shooting another officer in the face to cover up your own crimes? Regardless of what Aceveda's motivations were when he put Terry up to the job, he wanted to clean up corruption in Farmington. The fact that he wanted to also be seen as cbeing the guy responsible for cleaning up Farmington for self-interested reasons does not change the fact that he and Terry were "correct" and Vic was a cold-blooded murderer.

And the reason Aceveda and Terry were working outside the normal IAD structure was that that structure had been compromised - remember Vic's Deputy Chief buddy who was feeding him information? More to the point, Vic didn't just kill Terry. He covered up murders. He led the team to kill a completely unrelated and innocent individual to cover up robbing the Armenian money train. He hid evidence that would put criminals behind bards, criminals who later killed innocent people. He facilitated gang murders. He has broken just about every law, and many times innocent people have gotten hurt.

Would you want Mackey working in your town, policing your streets? I thought not.

First of all, I never said he was some kind of shining knight. If you'll read my earlier post, I pegged him at Chaotic Neutral.

Secondly, Aceveda didn't want to clean up the streets, he wanted to advance his own political ambitions. Vic has done more to "clean up the streets" than any other character on that show. Because he makes mistakes doesn't negate that fact.

Would I want Vic working in my town? Hell yes. If it were my little girl some sick pedophille had locked away in a secret room, and it took a Vic Mackey type to get the info, I wouldn't bat an eye.

"Good cop and bad cop left for the day. I'm a different kinda cop"