What alignment is House?

[Montague68]

(cracks fingers)

The theory behind House being chaotic is that he subverts authority and while there's no question about that, his entire life is not revolved around disputing authority. Even with the 2E version of lawful neutral, order and organization are the key belief of this character, no matter their fairness to the common populace.

So why is it that science is not a form of law?

*snipped*

Hmmm... I disagree. Simply because his whole life does not revolve around disputing authority does not mean he is not chaotic. One can be chaotic without going out every day and protesting the government.

Also you argue that science is the law and organization that House follows, as if he has exclusivity in this regard. He does not. His superiors and colleagues are usually quite well aware what the laws of science dictate with regards to the treatment of the patient. The difference is that House chooses to disregard rules and regulations that deal with applying that science.

By your definition there could never be a chaotic wizard. If a Wizard spell is a complicated set of rituals, hand gestures, incantations, etc. you could argue that a wizard who continually disobeyed authority to research and access forbidden spells was lawful since he was merely substituting the laws and organization of magic rather than the laws of society.


By the same token, a chaotic character is not necessarily whimsical and undisciplined (though many are). An archdemon formulating a systematic, logical plan to destabilize a kingdom and create anarchy and discord on a world is not proof that the demon is lawful. It merely highlights that the demon is intelligent and patient. Likewise, The laws and organization of science are only relevant within the practice of science. House utilizes them because they are a tool, and they work. It is how he applies those tools within the framework of society that show he is chaotic, not lawful.

 

[EP]

In the fifth episode of Season One, "Damned If You Do," the nun dying of allergies in a clean room asks House why he doesn't believe in God. His answer...

"What I have difficulty with is the whole concept of belief. Faith isn't based on logic and experience..." At this point, he is cut off by the nun and doesn't go any further.

An answer like that sound far too lawful to me. I agree with some of the replies that a chaotic character need not be incompetent or capable of rational thought, but it does not dictate their morals. House doesn't believe in God, in this case, because he has seen evidence of Him or had any experience with Him, whereas he can point to "scientific evidence" (which I use in quotations for my own personal reasons not applicable here) and say "That's how the universe came into existence."

I feel that House is lawful because he needs to find order and logic in the world. Anything he disregards at the hospital he sees as trivial matters that affects patients' lives, even when the patient themselves want it that way. He hates lawyers because they complicate things - hell, name anyone in this discussion right here that doesn't hate lawyers. And just as much as a chaotic character can deduce and reason, so too can a lawful character have emotions and personal drive to do what they feel is right. House uses lawful, ordered methods to do so. It's his delivery that's crazy.

 

[prosfilaes]

"What I have difficulty with is the whole concept of belief. Faith isn't based on logic and experience..." At this point, he is cut off by the nun and doesn't go any further.

An answer like that sound far too lawful to me.

I don't think that every rational person is perforce lawful. The fact that he believes in the importance of logic and experience doesn't negate the fact that he does what he wants, when he wants.

 

[prosfilaes]

What the f*** does "maximally chaotic" mean?

The most chaotic possible.

 

[Hussar]

Originally Posted by fnork de sporg
What the f*** does "maximally chaotic" mean?


The most chaotic possible.

Or just a somewhat crazy Autobot.

 

[JVisgaitis]

Chaotic Awesome. House is the greatest damn character ever.

 

[hbarsquared]

Because I love alignment discussions, and I love House, M.D.

I have seen every episode of seasons 1 and 2, and a couple since then. Is the show in its third or fourth season right now?

Gregory House: Chaotic Good, though sometimes/some episodes leaning toward Chaotic Neutral. He definitely makes sacrifices for others, putting his own career and life on the line in order to save and help others.

Although, there have been a few times where he hasn't bothered, and CN seems to apply better. The episode with the Munchaussen's patient at the beginning, when she collapses at the racetrack, and House refuses to help until the race is over... That's even bordering on Chaotic Evil.

For the most part, however, Chaotic Good. My favorite exemplar of this was when he blackmailed the surgeon in order to get a transplant for his patient. Then, after the surgery, House told the wife that her husband was cheating on her anyway.

House, in almost every episode and every circumstance, does the "right" thing.

Cuddy: Lawful Good, definitely. She is the foil to House, and although she gives into him most of the time, I don't believe it's due to a compromise in alignment so much as the precedence of the Good portion of her alignment, and knowledge that House is better at medicine than she is.

Wilson: Neutral Good, definitely. He's the moderator between House and the rest of the world.

Carmen: Neutral Good. She focuses on whatever would be best for the patient in a general sense, not necessarily just their illness. She is sometimes Chaotic when it comes to doing "whatever it takes" as well as lying to make people feel better. However, she is also Lawful when it comes to policies or promises that are made for the benefit of the patient (the NDA episode, for example).

Foreman: Lawful Neutral, though there have been some definite tendencies toward Evil. He is just as much a foil to House, as Cuddy.

Chase: True Neutral, and I see no Evil tendencies. He doesn't even practic medicine because he wants to help people. He's smart and applies it, but other than that just does what he wants and is out for himself. He never goes out of his way to hurt people in order to do so.

 

[ssampier]

What alignment explains the drug abuse? Granted I have only caught a few episodes. I understand the man is in considerably pain, but as a doctor, he has to know what drug-abuse can do to a person.

Chaotic Awesome. House is the greatest damn character ever.

You win the thread.

Edit: Cameron is Lawful Hottie.

 

[Mercule]

In the fifth episode of Season One, "Damned If You Do," the nun dying of allergies in a clean room asks House why he doesn't believe in God. His answer...

"What I have difficulty with is the whole concept of belief. Faith isn't based on logic and experience..." At this point, he is cut off by the nun and doesn't go any further.

An answer like that sound far too lawful to me.

I don't think you and I could have a discussion on alignments that didn't involve a cage match.

Just having a rational approach to life or not rolling dice to decide what to do does not make one lawful or rule out chaos. The lawful/chaotic axis is largely about how one tend to look at things. A lawful character tends to see things as groups, systems, catalogable rules, etc. A chaotic character tends to look at individuals, instances, evolving theorums, etc.

House pretty much never looks at what helps "diabetes sufferers" (for example) in general. He looks at the very specific individual in front of him. That's actually one of his biggest strengths -- it's what lets him think so outside the box. He isn't just going through a textbook list of symptoms and treatment. Instead, he's got this head full of facts that he can draw on and apply as the situation demands.

I also seriously doubt that he gave a totally honest answer to the nun. More likely, he just decided that he didn't want to believe and no one has been able to beat him into submission (with emperical evidence), yet.

 

[GreatLemur]

Every time we have one of these threads, it just makes it clearer what an utter trainwreck the whole Law-Chaos axis is. Case in point:

No, but a chaotic character would not turn to science as a rule. ... I feel that House is lawful because he needs to find order and logic in the world.

Time and time again we run into the idea that the Lawful and Chaotic alignment descriptors must necessarily be applied not only to a character's ethics and general attitude towards society, but towards every aspect of their methodology, demeanor, personal relationships, and understanding of reality. And I can't even really blame the gamers who do it, because the books honestly do promote this approach, to varying degrees (I suspect Planescape might have a lot to answer for, in particular). The end result being that Chaotic people are insane, Lawful people are robots, and I'm sick of the whole idea of alignment.

I ain't even going to get into the Good-Evil axis.