What Alignment is V?

[jdrakeh]

CG - His torture of Evey is the only truly evil act I think he commited. Blowing up buildings that house the instruments of oppression isn't evil in my book. If you were working for the Gov't of that story you were not an innocent. You were part of the system and got what you had coming.

Pretty much my take, as well. This thread illustrates beautifully the failings of hard-coded alignment, though - alignment depends entirely upon an individual's perception. What constitutes "good" to V and his fellows is no doubt seen as "evil" by those whom he fights against and, likewise, the government no doubt believes in the virtue of its own motives while V and company see them as the corrupt tools of oppression.

Good and Evil have everything to do with how a given individual or group of individuals happen to view certain deeds and beliefs, and very little to do with the actual deeds in and of themselves.

 

[Philotomy Jurament]

I'd call him CN, although I really like Chaotic Boring or Chaotic Pretentious, too.

 

[Rackhir]

A couple of points

RE: Killing the Doctor. She seemed grateful that he had killed her, I think she was quite tormented over what she'd done. He also "killed" her while she was asleep and in a way that caused her no pain. When the poison did finally take effect she seemed to finally be at peace.

RE: Torturing Evey. While he did cause her considerable distress and discomfort, she was never subjected to physical pain or disfigurement. Ultimately V was trying to teach her or perhaps to bring her enlightenment. Education is not always a pain free process. I've certainly suffered emotional distress and discomfort during my student days. And particularly with regards to more physical exercises, we've all heard the phrase "No Pain, No gain."

 

[Kishin]

Ignoring Moore's own input into the fact that the Wachowski Brothers can't assemble an original idea between them (Though I still enjoyed V for Vendetta), I'd say Chaotic Neutral. I really don't see any sort of guiding moral fiber to V. He did what he did unrepentantly and with full awareness of the fact that his actions would and did cause serious harm and/or trauma to other individuals. (including innocent ones like Evey) I might even go so far as to say V leans more toward Evil than Good. Road to hell paved with good intentions, that sort of trite thing. V is beyond the standard definition of antihero.

RE: Torturing Evey. While he did cause her considerable distress and discomfort, she was never subjected to physical pain or disfigurement. Ultimately V was trying to teach her or perhaps to bring her enlightenment. Education is not always a pain free process. I've certainly suffered emotional distress and discomfort during my student days. And particularly with regards to more physical exercises, we've all heard the phrase "No Pain, No gain."

Your wording here is very, very dangerous. You're effectively implying that emotional pain and distress is completely invalid, and since he didn't physically hurt her, there was nothing wrong with the process. If anything, that sort of emotional torment should be considered worse. Broken bones heel, blood clots, but damage to someone's psyche is long lasting and often permanent. He engineered the complete psychological breakdown of an innocent human being for the sole purpose of forcing her to accept his worldview. He did so over an extended period of time without thought to whatever permanent damage that might cause her. His reasoning was entirely selfish; He wanted Evey to see things his way, so he was going to make her do so, no matter what he did.

Education is not the same thing as torture, and 'no pain, no gain' is spoken as the equivalent of 'make the effort', not as 'the only path to righteousness is suffering'. Your justification is equivalent to an abusive parent turning to their child and saying 'Mommy/Daddy only hits you because he/she loves you." and expecting them to believe it.

 

[CrusaderX]

I've got to say Chaotic Evil too.

He's clearly chaotic. He believes first and foremost in individual choice, in bucking any social convention or law that doesn't suit you. His ideal world is one in which nobody tells anybody what to do: anarchy. That's as chaotic as they come.

He's fairly evil, in D&D terms. He was happy to torture Evey in order to free her, and he would happily torture the whole world in order to free it. Killing people doesn't bother him in the slightest. We might sneak him by as Chaotic Neutral, but really, someone who seeks freedom without regard for the pain or death he causes is Chaotic Evil. It just goes to show that even evil people can do some good.

Agreed. He's clearly Chaotic Evil to me.

 

[Rackhir]

Your wording here is very, very dangerous. You're effectively implying that emotional pain and distress is completely invalid, and since he didn't physically hurt her, there was nothing wrong with the process. If anything, that sort of emotional torment should be considered worse. Broken bones heel, blood clots, but damage to someone's psyche is long lasting and often permanent. He engineered the complete psychological breakdown of an innocent human being for the sole purpose of forcing her to accept his worldview. He did so over an extended period of time without thought to whatever permanent damage that might cause her. His reasoning was entirely selfish; He wanted Evey to see things his way, so he was going to make her do so, no matter what he did.

Education is not the same thing as torture, and 'no pain, no gain' is spoken as the equivalent of 'make the effort', not as 'the only path to righteousness is suffering'. Your justification is equivalent to an abusive parent turning to their child and saying 'Mommy/Daddy only hits you because he/she loves you." and expecting them to believe it.

Your point is valid, but I'm making a point about a specific incident in a specific story. Not a blanket statement about things in life.

 

[rounser]

I really don't see any sort of guiding moral fiber to V. He did what he did unrepentantly and with full awareness of the fact that his actions would and did cause serious harm and/or trauma to other individuals. (including innocent ones like Evey)

Yeah, I think some of the confusion is based on him being quite charming and sophisticated, and therefore sympathetic. High charisma score? Makes people agree with you even when what you're doing is questionable.

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

I really don't see any sort of guiding moral fiber to V. He did what he did unrepentantly and with full awareness of the fact that his actions would and did cause serious harm and/or trauma to other individuals.

Indeed, what is the famous phrase from a world-class tyrant, Chairman Mao... "Sometimes you have to break a few eggs to make an omelet."

 

[Kishin]

Your point is valid, but I'm making a point about a specific incident in a specific story. Not a blanket statement about things in life.

I understood, I was just speaking to the subtext of that particular statement for the sake of clarity.

 

[Meloncov]

RE: Torturing Evey. While he did cause her considerable distress and discomfort, she was never subjected to physical pain or disfigurement. Ultimately V was trying to teach her or perhaps to bring her enlightenment. Education is not always a pain free process. I've certainly suffered emotional distress and discomfort during my student days. And particularly with regards to more physical exercises, we've all heard the phrase "No Pain, No gain."

I'm pretty sure their was one shot where she was being physically tortured; she was chained up a subjected to what appeared to be an acid.

As for the rest of the methods he used, it's rather hard to discuss their morality without breaking the no politics/religion rule (as most/all are interogation methods used by the US).