What Archetypes Deserve Classes in a Fantasy Game?

[Arnwyn]

Eh. I tend to think that the swashbuckler and pirate are awefully similar and could be combined into a single class. I'm torn, though on whether this should be a separate class or not. The Fighter class seems like it _should_ embody all weapon-master types, which a swashbuckler definitely is. Still, the Fighter falls flat on making a swashbuckler competitive because it's a heavy armour and high skill concept, while a swashbuckler is low armour and extreme skill concept. Multiclassing to Rogue adds a bit in the intelligent, low armor category, but a swashbuckler really needs the pure BAB -- if anything, they should be _better_ than a tank.

*shrug* I agree, here - the swashbuckler and pirate could certainly be combined (which is probably why I listed them, noting my interest in the archtype concept - separate or otherwise) and I would never complain. I also agree with everything else you said.

I definitely don't like the Paladin as a core class. It's just entirely too narrow in focus for a base class, IMHO. I'm all for a Paladin PrC, but not a base class.

While I wholly believe in the "sacred cows" of D&D, this is one change that I probably wouldn't have minded (or would have been indifferent to, at most).

I definitely don't want to see classes go away. IMHO, classes and levels are the ultimate sacred cow of D&D. Once they disappear, it cannot be D&D. I am interested in seeing some flexible classes, however, that could fit multiple concepts.

Word.

 

[Tonguez]

In a different direction, how core-fantasy of an archetype is the rogue, really (outside of D&D)? OK, there are some examples (the Grey Mouser, Ali Baba...I'm sure they're are more), but for every one of them there are 10 sword-wielding champions and another 3 axe/hammer swinging heroes. There's not one rogue type in LotR, IIRC (I can't remember how much Bilbo the 'burgler' actually uses rogue skills to help the party in TheHobbit, but there's more rogue inspiration there, I suppose).

I think you could argue that fantasy rogues are no more different from the basic fighter class than are rangers such as Strider. Even The Grey Mouser is afterall described as one of the greatest swordsman ever.

IMHO the 'Rogue' is more a Folklorish archetype that harkens back to older literary modes than modern fantasy novels. Just look at things like FairyTales (Jack (of Beanstalk Fame), Puss n Boots, the Pied Piper (okay a Bard)), the Arabian Nights Stories (Alladin, Ali Baba), other folklore tales like Robin Hood, Dick Turpin, Dick Whittington and his Cat etc etc - these were all 'rogues'. The Rogue represents the 'common man' who uses his wits and skills rather than his brawn.

Conan was definately a multiclass character with some rogue, greymouser was probably Rogue/Fighter

The Swashbuckler (Pirate/Duelist etc) becomes neccesary because of the Mechanical issue of BAb being Str based. A feat to allow dex based BAb would be enough to do this archetype with a Fighter (perhaps a path-type set up like the Ranger now has)

 

[Desdichado]

There is such a feat: it's called Weapon Finesse.