What are the pros and cons of the different campaign settings?

[Kichwas]

Personally I find new base classes easier to integrate into a game than prestige classes. That said, the ones for Kalamar are in a book that was designed to handle the desires of those who wanted new mechanics for the world - you don't need that book to play in Kalamar or even get a good feel for the setting though it does help.

While some Kalamar prestige classes might do some 'wonky things' I've not seen any problems with any of them (just what are these 'wonky things' anyway?). Considering how often S&SS stuff comes up for balance issues, it doesn't make the best counter argument.

If I used the stuff in the Villain Design Handbook I doubt I'd roll either. That said, having those anti-feats there is very handy for fleshing out a villain - which is what the book is all about.

Kenzer's mechanics are not perfect, but they're hardly subpar and often quite excellent. What counts for the line though is not it's mechanics but it's flavor. You won't find one person on the Kalamar boards who bought in for the mechanics, but you will find many who find the detail and accuracy beyond reproach.

 

[Nightfall]

Arc,

As I said a lot of this is my personal opinion. I will however be willing to respond:

1) Villain's design book to me was a waste. I'm sorry but while there were some issues with BoVD, at least they didn't cover up the fact that if you wanted to make a vile villian or a colorful one, you didn't need extra feats to do so. Secondly my issue with this book is quite frankly I felt there were FEW if ANY villians I felt were truly villianous. Even with the anti-feats, at best they were "cute". And my comparison I draw between a "cute" villian and a REAL villian is one that's so far has stood the test of time. The Jack of Tears. I can't HONESTLY think of a more interesting and well made villian than him at this point. Bane might have been funny and Cyric nuts, but the Jack is just scary as hell. Compared to that I don't see how any of the composite villains in Villains Design book were even remote interesting. But that's me. And it is my opinion.

2) I won't even try to justify half the prestige classes that come out at time. God knows we get enough screams and cries else where. What I will say is that designs such as the one in Blacklight or even one like the Alliance Merchant are even used compared other more interesting things out there. (One wonky thing is the ability to IGNORE sneak attack damage. I know of NO other Pr-class that does that. No be able to be flanked yes, or other ways to get around it, but not BLANTLEY ignore such damage. Not unless they change into undead or constructs or other non-sneak attack creatures) That said, this is again just my opinion.

3) Flavor is fine. And certain I'd be the last person to be arguing the point. But I DO think there has to be a little more account on the part of Kenzer when it come Kalamar. But again this is just my opinion.

 

[Psion]

If I used the stuff in the Villain Design Handbook

Given that you are towing the line defending it, I am given to wonder: if it's so good, why don't you use it?

What counts for the line though is not it's mechanics but it's flavor. You won't find one person on the Kalamar boards who bought in for the mechanics, but you will find many who find the detail and accuracy beyond reproach.

Which is why I listed detail as a pro and mechanics as a con.

This is not a "bash Kalamar" thread. Someone asked about pros and cons of various settings, and I beleive the ones I provided were more than fair. I think it is a fine setting, with it's strengths and weakness, that will appeal to some players but not others.

Here's a request: instead of playing "defend my favorite setting from all comers", why don't you join us and tell use what you think the strengths and weaknesses of Kalamar are (as well as any other settings you care to name)?

 

[Nightfall]

Indeed and while I will say out right folks, Kalamar ISN'T for me, I will say I respect those that like it and enjoy it. If you like Low magic and some good political twists, this is certainly a setting you'll enjoy.

 

[johnsemlak]

There are a few published settings out there that having been touched so far. Hopefully some fans could give us some info on them:

Sovereign Stone--Don't have it but I've heard some great thigns about it. It's done by the people who bring you the DLCS. It has it's own Magic system. It has a lot of interesting departures from the standard D&D fantasy milieu (e.g. Dwarves are a horse-riding race). The line has a lot of support, including a magic book, a bestiary, serveral regional books, etc.

Arcanis--I have heard very little about this one. There don't seem to be a lot of books supporting it. It's 'Living' campaing is supposedly very popular. Freeport has an official tie-in with Arcanis.

 

[Kichwas]

Psion: Didn't really say I don't use the Villain Design Handbook. The if there should be worded more like "If I use" as in "in those occassions where I take from this source".

As far as weakneses to the setting, the only one I see is a blandness to the writing style in places within the main book.

It can read as dry in places. It's not built to hype you up (despite the silly line on the back cover about 'ass-kicking' which I believe was put there by WotC), but rather to place as much information as possible within the text.

Many notable elements can be just dropped into the middle of a paragraph here or there. As a result some people come away thinking the book lacks adventure hooks or 'things going on' and others find a wealth of such material. There's more there than in say, FRCS - but it's not called out. Likewise with how they handle non humans - it's all in the middle of the text rather than called out to it's own sections (save for Hobgoblins). There's an amazing amount of information given for what is going on with non humans, but you have to read deeply and with attention or you might miss it.


For Soveriegn Stone: I really liked the magic system in this one, and the new base classes as well. If I ever decide to use my Fahla setting with DnD again I will likely appropriate these elements for it rather than use the core magic system. But the world itself seems lacking in logical development. It feels artificial rather than organic. Built suddenly to support a certain plotline.

Anyone mention Bluffside? This setting -which I believe is now out of print- is also 'just a single city'. It's richly detailed and full of ideas but races in the back lack mention of their ECLs despite at least one seeming to clearly be above ECL 0 (the Sixam, who can fly).

Another good setting I picked up was Ravenloft. Though I only have the first book. This setting completley lacks logic and sensible design in the layout of the world and it's socio-political makeup. However... the hook for the setting actually demands this. The very nature of what brings the assorted realms together is magical and demands a certain lack of logic - which creates one of the central tensions. The material is interesting and well written.

 

[Brennin Magalus]

Mea Culpa. I thought I had remembered the half-hobgoblins using odd stat modifiers. Wonder what I was thinking of.

That sounds familiar to me. I think they corrected that mistake early on, though. Even so, they still don't have a good grasp of how to balance ability scores, judging from the Player's Handbook. Their gray elves, for example, have a -2 to CON but a +2 to INT and CHA.

 

[johnsemlak]

Ooo, I forgot to add a cool alternative setting, Nyambe: African Adventures.

 

[Brennin Magalus]

Forgotten Realms

CONS: Bloated pantheons of disparate gods that were cobbled together with the skill of a rank amateur; a completely nonsensical geography; a world that is beholden to junk novels; a legion of 2D, overpowered NPCs; Ed Greenwood; magic is too ubiquitous.

PROS: Good product support. However, if WOTC lavished the same attention on Greyhawk, a far worthier setting, Forgotten Realms would become just that.

 

[Kichwas]

Their gray elves, for example, have a -2 to CON but a +2 to INT and CHA.

That's just a half-orc in reverse.

No book ever put out for Kalamar had +/- 1 stats.

There was an early d20 book that did this and took a lot of heat for it, but it wasn't a Kalamar book.