What are you reading in 2025?

[Retros_x]

Hailey Piper is being, once again, good for helping me focus that feeling and discharge it via fiction.

I never heard of her tbh, but what you wrote in this thread made me interested. Do you have a recommendation for someone who is new to her?

I would note that longer books are not necessarily "unedited", because again, length is a virtue and books are not inherently improved by beong shortened.

I don't mean that all long books are unedited, but I read more and more books that could've used better editing. It feels to me the trend goes to artificial length, not justified length. Or maybe a better phrasing: The justification for length does come less and less from the story itself, but the commercialization because as you stated yourself: long books sell better. Thats not a virtue for me, thats a sell out. Not all books might be inherently improved by being shortened, but also not every book is inherently good just because its long. You claim that as a virtue and inherently right, but thats not an objective truth. But I think we should stop this length discussion here, we are not on the same page and probably never will be. Still an interesting exchange and thank you for your calm answers, even when I asked you some provocative questions.

 

[Parmandur]

Finished Anathem. It's a singular novel that takes huge swings, I found kinda boring to read, and yet interesting to think about.

About 3/4 of the way through this seriously epic novel a new character is introduced who is literally named Jules Verne, after the author, which really helped me crystalize my thoughts on Anathem. I mentioned earlier that it felt like a throwback novel, in terms of narrative style. That was obviously what Stephenson was going for, and more specifically inspired by the pioneering sci-fi author.

The thing with Jules Verne novels is that they are super talky. They have these really cool, high concept plot hooks, but most of the novel is about 10% plot and 90% exposition. Like, re-read 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea: it is pages and pages of Nemo explaining stuff, punctuated by occasional flashes of excitement when a bit of plot happens. That is Anathem, except at ten times the scale.

The world-building is almost Tolkien-esque, and an impressive feat in its own right as it constantly weaves in the history of the alternate Earth that is the main setting. The "science" aspect of this sci-fi novel is a sort of mash-up of Platonic Idealism, Cartesian Rationalism and quantum mumbo jumbo; as in most Stephenson novels you don't want to look too closely at the details...except this is a novel that dwells endlessly on them. So for me that often made it tedious, kind of like if Star Wars was 90% people talking about how The Force works rather than just hand-waving the nonsense and getting to the action. So that makes this novel more like the prequels than the original trilogy, if you want to stretch that analogy.

So, yeah. Ambitious, unique, occasionally riveting and often stupefyingly dull...it's one of a kind. I'm glad I read it, but I wouldn't recommend it to most readers.

Fair take all around. It is a very "Old School" Sci-Fi story.

The novel had one of the more fun tie-in ephemera at the time of release, they actually made the Msth monk music:

 

[Autumnal]

I never heard of her tbh, but what you wrote in this thread made me interested. Do you have a recommendation for someone who is new to her?

I started with The Worm And Its Kings, a novella set in 1990 New York. The main character is a young trans woman whose lover has gone missing. Her efforts to find her lead her to the original history of the world and a cult interested in undoing the world as it is now. It has two sequels, also novellas. They’re quick but intense reads that introduce a lot of Piper’s recurring motifs. I think it’s a good place for others to start.

I don't mean that all long books are unedited, but I read more and more books that could've used better editing.

Oh boy. Talk to any good editor and they will tell you stories. The conglomerates that dominate publishing have no interest in books as anything but commodities interchangeable with shoes, soft drinks, and anything else. Even when the publishers themselves are run by people who know and love books, the management above them isn’t interested in paying for consistently high-quality editing and copyediting. So they do what they can, juggling resources in hopes of doing the most good with what they’re allowed to spend.

 

[prabe]

Oh boy. Talk to any good editor and they will tell you stories. The conglomerates that dominate publishing have no interest in books as anything but commodities interchangeable with shoes, soft drinks, and anything else. Even when the publishers themselves are run by people who know and love books, the management above them isn’t interested in paying for consistently high-quality editing and copyediting. So they do what they can, juggling resources in hopes of doing the most good with what they’re allowed to spend.

When I was recording audiobooks, we often found errors--some of them were pretty egregious (such as "two-car garbage"). I sometimes notice things in the books I'm reading for pleasure, now, but reading the text aloud is, I think, more likely to find them.

 

[Autumnal]

When I was recording audiobooks, we often found errors--some of them were pretty egregious (such as "two-car garbage"). I sometimes notice things in the books I'm reading for pleasure, now, but reading the text aloud is, I think, more likely to find them.

Oh yes. It’s one of the great tips for copyediting. (Another is to start at the bottom of the page and go up line by line. You can use a sheet of paper or something to cover the lines above your current one.)

 

[Clint_L]

I wanted something short after Anathem, so I grabbed Samantha Harvey’s Orbital, which won the Booker last year. It’s gorgeous, but is it a novel? Or a prose poem? There’s virtually no plot, but rather a paen to earth from the perspective of six astronauts as they complete one day (sixteen orbits…so maybe sixteen days, depending on perspective).

Anyway, she’s a terrific writer, but if you are going to read it, approach with the mindset of reading a collection of interlocking poems.

 

[overgeeked]

I don't mean that all long books are unedited, but I read more and more books that could've used better editing.

It’s also up to the author what edits they accept. The editor cannot force the edits on the author. The editor’s job is to improve what’s there, not change it. And the house always sides with the author. So if tgey want that 25-page pointless side quest / diatribe to stay, it stays.

Oh boy. Talk to any good editor and they will tell you stories. The conglomerates that dominate publishing have no interest in books as anything but commodities interchangeable with shoes, soft drinks, and anything else. Even when the publishers themselves are run by people who know and love books, the management above them isn’t interested in paying for consistently high-quality editing and copyediting. So they do what they can, juggling resources in hopes of doing the most good with what they’re allowed to spend.

Yep. Most editors are run ragged and spend their own time reading and revising because they want the best for the book but the house just wants units.

Oh yes. It’s one of the great tips for copyediting. (Another is to start at the bottom of the page and go up line by line. You can use a sheet of paper or something to cover the lines above your current one.)

Exactly. Both are quite effective. Reading aloud is also a great way to find words you’ve only read and never actually heard spoken aloud.

 

[prabe]

Exactly. Both are quite effective. Reading aloud is also a great way to find words you’ve only read and never actually heard spoken aloud.

Working in a context where you hear words pronounced on the regular sometimes gets in the way of communication ...