What are you reading in 2025?

[Parmandur]

I see. I guess I'm kind of the opposite way, I really don't like lickspittle/fainting/damsel-type female characters in cis-hetero stuff unless they're actual lunatics/stalkers (when it sort of wraps around to being kind of fun again), which are sadly not uncommon in the worse-written shonen-type stuff that WoT is rather equivalent to (I mean, WoT is a cut above the really dire shonen, to be clear, it's not like, "average isekai" levels of bad), and in a lot of shoddier fantasy.

I guess the shoe is on the other foot now though as a lot of female-led fantasy novels of the slightly shoddier kind basically gender-flip to a similarly rubbish dynamic, and just have tsundere Edward and Jacob equivalents inexplicably in love with the female lead, despite her behaving like a jerk/maniac. I'd blame Twilight but Vampire Eric vs Vampire Bill shows it pre-dates that.

Right, I think for a certain set who came to the Wheel of Time expecting the standard narrative, the strong female characters (I think Nyneave's chapters are an absolute Masterclass in third person limited writing) and the sevre and debilitating PTSD of the three male protagonists were irritating.

 

[Retros_x]

Jordan does, ultimately, manage to have his cake and eat it too on this count. Yes, there is a lot of really frankly bizarre wish fulfillment (he will not beat those harem charges, and by the end of the series Jordan's own personal fantasies are crystal clear, though he keeps everything off screen), but also draws out the difficulties, challenges and rewards of real deep relationships.

Ok thanks, that is good for my expectation management for the upcoming books.

Yeah, the part of the fandom that hates them is a weird thing, to be honest. They are very well drawn out characters, in my opinion.

I especially like Nynaeve! I am really glad we get now POV chapters in this book (only a few though) and I am always looking forward to them. I love her banter and her passionate hate towards the Aes Sedai - while joining them. Its hilarious. The only thing that didn't work for me completely is her relationship with Lan, because it happened so sudden. I saw the hints in book 1 and I understand that most of the "falling in love" happened from Rands perspective - who had a limited POV to this happening. But it also happened "out of camera" - when they were seperated in book 1 we got almost no chapters from the grop of Mouraine, Nynaeve and Lan. I hoped in book 2 to maybe retroactively get a bit insight in how that happened but it seems I just have to accept that the feelings they have for each other were just conveyed as a dry fact to me as a reader.

Wait people hate Nynaeve and Egwaene? I had no idea. I guess both of them can be wet blankets at times but honestly a lot of the characters in WoT could benefit from some wet blanketry!

I goodled Nynaeva just for the spelling of her name and immediately got reddit threads like "How long am I supposed to hate Nynaeve?" and similar stuff. Which is wild to me.

I mean, WoT is a cut above the really dire shonen, to be clear, it's not like, "average isekai" levels of bad)

Yes, I want to be clear I was focussing of these similarities to Shonen manga because they became so prominent in book 2. But the book has more to offer and I still enjoy it a lot while I don't enjoy average isekais at all.

 

[Parmandur]

I especially like Nynaeve! I am really glad we get now POV chapters in this book (only a few though) and I am always looking forward to them. I love her banter and her passionate hate towards the Aes Sedai - while joining them. Its hilarious.

One of the elements of the series which definitely gets better is that Rand is increasingly decentered as the main POV. Per the fan Wiki, in the end Rand only provides about 17% of the text of the series, which is the most of any individual character by a fair shake, but it is not the "Rand Al'Thor Show" more and more as it goes on.