What are you reading in 2025?

[Parmandur]

I see. I guess I'm kind of the opposite way, I really don't like lickspittle/fainting/damsel-type female characters in cis-hetero stuff unless they're actual lunatics/stalkers (when it sort of wraps around to being kind of fun again), which are sadly not uncommon in the worse-written shonen-type stuff that WoT is rather equivalent to (I mean, WoT is a cut above the really dire shonen, to be clear, it's not like, "average isekai" levels of bad), and in a lot of shoddier fantasy.

I guess the shoe is on the other foot now though as a lot of female-led fantasy novels of the slightly shoddier kind basically gender-flip to a similarly rubbish dynamic, and just have tsundere Edward and Jacob equivalents inexplicably in love with the female lead, despite her behaving like a jerk/maniac. I'd blame Twilight but Vampire Eric vs Vampire Bill shows it pre-dates that.

Right, I think for a certain set who came to the Wheel of Time expecting the standard narrative, the strong female characters (I think Nyneave's chapters are an absolute Masterclass in third person limited writing) and the sevre and debilitating PTSD of the three male protagonists were irritating.

 

[Retros_x]

Jordan does, ultimately, manage to have his cake and eat it too on this count. Yes, there is a lot of really frankly bizarre wish fulfillment (he will not beat those harem charges, and by the end of the series Jordan's own personal fantasies are crystal clear, though he keeps everything off screen), but also draws out the difficulties, challenges and rewards of real deep relationships.

Ok thanks, that is good for my expectation management for the upcoming books.

Yeah, the part of the fandom that hates them is a weird thing, to be honest. They are very well drawn out characters, in my opinion.

I especially like Nynaeve! I am really glad we get now POV chapters in this book (only a few though) and I am always looking forward to them. I love her banter and her passionate hate towards the Aes Sedai - while joining them. Its hilarious. The only thing that didn't work for me completely is her relationship with Lan, because it happened so sudden. I saw the hints in book 1 and I understand that most of the "falling in love" happened from Rands perspective - who had a limited POV to this happening. But it also happened "out of camera" - when they were seperated in book 1 we got almost no chapters from the grop of Mouraine, Nynaeve and Lan. I hoped in book 2 to maybe retroactively get a bit insight in how that happened but it seems I just have to accept that the feelings they have for each other were just conveyed as a dry fact to me as a reader.

Wait people hate Nynaeve and Egwaene? I had no idea. I guess both of them can be wet blankets at times but honestly a lot of the characters in WoT could benefit from some wet blanketry!

I goodled Nynaeva just for the spelling of her name and immediately got reddit threads like "How long am I supposed to hate Nynaeve?" and similar stuff. Which is wild to me.

I mean, WoT is a cut above the really dire shonen, to be clear, it's not like, "average isekai" levels of bad)

Yes, I want to be clear I was focussing of these similarities to Shonen manga because they became so prominent in book 2. But the book has more to offer and I still enjoy it a lot while I don't enjoy average isekais at all.

 

[Parmandur]

I especially like Nynaeve! I am really glad we get now POV chapters in this book (only a few though) and I am always looking forward to them. I love her banter and her passionate hate towards the Aes Sedai - while joining them. Its hilarious.

One of the elements of the series which definitely gets better is that Rand is increasingly decentered as the main POV. Per the fan Wiki, in the end Rand only provides about 17% of the text of the series, which is the most of any individual character by a fair shake, but it is not the "Rand Al'Thor Show" more and more as it goes on.

 

[jian]

My fourth book of the week is Failed State by Sam Freedman, which is an absolutely outstanding analysis of the entrenched and worsening problems with British government over the last four decades or so. It’s more detailed and insightful than How Westminster Works by Ian Dunt (mostly about Parliament) and Why We Get The Wrong Politicians by Isabel Hardman (mostly about MPs), but is a fine companion piece to both and maybe one to read afterwards; all three are excellent.

Freedman is a former civil servant (Education under Gove) and avowed policy wonk, and diagnoses the main issues as over-centralisation (especially a lack of devolution within England, and a lack of power within Parliament), a lack of long-term capacity (established policy and implementation units; civil service capacity, independence, and expertise; funding, independence, and power in local authorities), and a lack of incentive to implement much-needed reforms aimed at solving these issues. I also think these are exactly the problems with the NHS (I’d also highlight a distinct lack of experienced staff like me since we’ve all quit) and I think he’s likely to be correct about this too. Freedman argues his case well with plenty of examples (including a detailed analysis of what his team and he got wrong in Education). Highly recommended if you like that sort of thing.

(I appreciated the insight that Yes Minister, entertaining as it was, was basically Thatcherite propaganda and hopelessly out of date about the civil service and government by the time it aired. The Thick of It was apparently much more accurate.)

 

[Jeremy E Grenemyer]

For paper books, I have just started A Long Game: Notes On Writing Fiction by Elizabeth McCracken.

I'm listening to a bunch of audiobooks right now. Arguably by Christopher Hitchens (weighing in at 28 hours, 22 minutes of content) and The Djinn in the Nightingale's Eye by A.S. Byatt are some of the latest. Also a re-listen to The Martian by Andy Weir.

 

[gban007]

Yeah, the part of the fandom that hates them is a weird thing, to be honest. They are very well drawn out characters, in my opopinion.

Is an interesting one. Im a little different i think, I think both are very good characters in the series, but I find Nynaeve likeable, and Egwene dislikeable. Interestingly I think in first few books it was more the other way round, but Nynaeve really grew on me, as it became clearer what drives her brash personality, but Egwene's arc made her less and less likeable for me. But both great characters, as both create a string reaction from me, I would say I love Nynaeve and hate Egwene as such.
I think similar for Mat and Perrin for me too, I liked Perrin / disliked Mat early on, but that switched later.
Interstingly think I also have double standards between protagonists and antagonists, being more favorable to the latter / like them more despite similar flaws.