What benefit is there for a smart/careful 3pp to use the GSL?

[GMforPowergamers]

Just remembe ...first week in jail find the bigest meanest SOB and kick his A**... all it takes is 1 lawsuit that goes through for WotC, and 500 baseless CaD orders will be followed out of fear. Kensor and Co, and Goodman Games are big names, if they slip up on the legal stuff they make a good target...on the other hand if WotC loses it's first big case then they might as well change 4e to OGL...everyone will smell blood in the water.

So WotC is on a tight rope, and if they do nothing to stop this they look like a paper tiger, but they have to hit hard on there first shot, and trust me NO ONE wants to be on the reciving side of the 800lbs garila punch...

 

[Angellis_ater]

A lot of people seem to be VERY scared of Wizards and their non-existing Cease and Desist letters (which aren't going to be sent to either Kenzer or Goodman) for no apparent reason. For the Gorilla to send of its troops of lawyers, they need a real target worth attacking - ie copyright infringement. Which referencing other books is not.

 

[Darrin Drader]

Just remembe ...first week in jail find the bigest meanest SOB and kick his A**... all it takes is 1 lawsuit that goes through for WotC, and 500 baseless CaD orders will be followed out of fear. Kensor and Co, and Goodman Games are big names, if they slip up on the legal stuff they make a good target...on the other hand if WotC loses it's first big case then they might as well change 4e to OGL...everyone will smell blood in the water.

So WotC is on a tight rope, and if they do nothing to stop this they look like a paper tiger, but they have to hit hard on there first shot, and trust me NO ONE wants to be on the reciving side of the 800lbs garila punch...

Given the fact that the Kenzers are lawyers, I'm confident about two things: (1) They know for a fact that what they're doing will hold up to a legal challenge, and (2) They have access to unlimited free legal representation.

Unfortunately for other publishers, I don't think they're going to divulge exactly where the line is that you cannot cross without getting yourself in trouble, so unless you have access to a good attorney, it's still best to play it safe.

 

[Fenes]

Given WotC's proposed business plan for campaign settings - 3 books, then done - and their history of focusing on crunchy splatbooks, I think they actually like it when others provide more fluff and adventures. With the loss of rules available like in the SRD, a 4E KoK book means more PHBs and more splatbooks sold.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

A lot of people seem to be VERY scared of Wizards and their non-existing Cease and Desist letters (which aren't going to be sent to either Kenzer or Goodman) for no apparent reason. For the Gorilla to send of its troops of lawyers, they need a real target worth attacking - ie copyright infringement. Which referencing other books is not.

Once again I said they made tempting targets...but there had to be a real case (lawyer or not people are far from perfect)

Given the fact that the Kenzers are lawyers, I'm confident about two things: (1) They know for a fact that what they're doing will hold up to a legal challenge, and (2) They have access to unlimited free legal representation.

Unfortunately for other publishers, I don't think they're going to divulge exactly where the line is that you cannot cross without getting yourself in trouble, so unless you have access to a good attorney, it's still best to play it safe.

again I think WOTC is looking for a lame duck slam dunk case to set precadent... I (with no legal training, no copyright knowladge, and no IP experance) have no idea what they are looking for...but I know they are looking.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Considering that some third parties want to support 4E, but don't use the GSL, I wonder if the people at WotC that did not like the OGL will reconsider their stance, and those that favor open gaming among WotC get the upper hand again.

I think the only real problem with the GSL is the fact that it can be terminated and you apparently can't use your IP under the OGL again.
That's not a problem for Redbricks Earthdawn, for example, as Earthdawn was never under the OGL and even if the GSL was terminated, it never has to be again.

The real trick is to create a new license model that does not rely on Wizards (and the OGL does, you are always entering an agreement with WotC if you follow their license!). The advantage of the OGL over any other license model was that it gave you access to a core rule system - the SRD - that was universally understood. But something like True20 or M&M doesn't really need the SRD. The rules are so distinct from the SRD that no copyright would hinder these systems.

 

[jmucchiello]

The advantage of the OGL over any other license model was that it gave you access to a core rule system - the SRD - that was universally understood. But something like True20 or M&M doesn't really need the SRD. The rules are so distinct from the SRD that no copyright would hinder these systems.

What are you talking about? True20 and M&M both loudly proclaimed their derivation from the SRD in their copies of the OGL printed right in the books. To try to say later, no True20 is not derived from WotC material would be a boldfaced lie and I doubt Green Ronin would be foolhardy enough to try it.

An OGL-like license is useless without the 3.x SRD licensed under it.

 

[CapnZapp]

To be honest, I think this whole "to use the GSL, or not to use the GSL" discussion is a bit tedious. Not to speak of the utterly unconstructive "Is the GSL evil?" question...

Instead, why don't you spend your creativity/frustration on creating a 4E OGL game? Somewhat like the idea behind efforts such as Osric or Labyrinth Lord, only using the OGL?

If such a thing were to be develop fairly rapidly, that could become a de facto standard for 3PP's wanting to publish 4E-compatible stuff but not wanting to sign away their control under the GSL.

And, it would make this entire discussion irrelevant.

(Look in the RPG Legalities subforum - formerly called GSL-list or something like that - for more on this)

Happy days

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

What are you talking about? True20 and M&M both loudly proclaimed their derivation from the SRD in their copies of the OGL printed right in the books. To try to say later, no True20 is not derived from WotC material would be a boldfaced lie and I doubt Green Ronin would be foolhardy enough to try it.

An OGL-like license is useless without the 3.x SRD licensed under it.

Yes, they proclaim it. But that doesn't mean they require the SRD or the OGL any more.
From a purely legal point of view, the rules stand on their own and most likely do not break any copy rights. (and if they do, all you need to is find a few synonyms or a different sentence structure).
The other goal (aside from the legal harbor) of the OGL is to declare a "limited compatiblity" to D&D - if you understand how 3E D&D works, you will find most OGL games easy to graps, too.

If it's true that Gary Gygax "founded" role-playing games with his first edition of D&D, wouldn't every role-playing game need an acknowledgment to his work? If not, why does every game that uses a d20-like system need an acknowledgment to WotC? Especially one as formalized as the OGL!

The game design ideas are out there. They don't belong to anyone. Rolling a d20, adding a number and comparing it to a second number isn't an intellectual achievement that demands restriction or licenses. It is possible to acknowledge influence without becoming dependent of what influenced you.

 

[Ginnel]

Just a pondering is there anything stopping a publisher producing a splat saying on the cover back or front,

"From the company who gave you Tome of Horrors, a new selection of [whatever you like] in the form of Home of Terrors!"

for example, as your not converting an old line across your just making the consumer aware.