What Bugs Me About Prestige Classes

[Cthulhudrew]

I've been looking through all the "Complete" books recently, as well as some other sources, to try to find some PrCs that would be suitable to use in a Mystara campaign setting, and what I'm finding more often than not are classes that "cherry pick" from abilities of two or more base classes, and don't really provide much new. To me, if a PrC doesn't provide something unique- more unique abilities than "standard" ones- then characters should have to multiclass.

Some examples of good and bad PrCs (IMO), from Complete Warrior:

Bad-

Darkwood Stalker- This is nothing more than a Ranger/Rogue/Assassin. The only "unique" ability it has is the Dodge Critical ability. Otherwise, it is just Rogue (sneak attack), Ranger (favored enemy), and Assassin (death attack).

Neutral-

Order of the Bow Initiate- This offers abilities that are tailored specifically to a character who has put a lot of time and energy into archery. Admittedly, with proper feat choice and a Rogue/Fighter multiclass, you'd have much the same, but it's a good start.

Good-

Spellsword- This class does exactly what it says it does; you take a multiclass Fighter/Mage and make him even better at it. Nullify casting penalties for armor, cast spells through your weapon, etc. Simply multiclassing as a Ftr/Wiz wouldn't quite get you what this PrC provides, so it has done its job, IMO.

Don't get me wrong- I like the idea of Prestige Classes. I think they're a great way of a) specializing your character, and b) providing unique organizations and things in a campaign world. I just don't like how a lot of them seem to have been created. Anyone else notice/bothered by this? Or is it just me?

 

[Starglim]

I'd completely missed the Darkwood Stalker, which I suppose supports your point. I'd probably look at it as a variant assassin rather than an archetype in its own right.

I'm more concerned with a unique position in society for a prestige class, rather than a lot of unique abilities, though every prestige class should have at least one ability that others don't share. I really like the Order of the Bow Initiate for that reason even though it feels a bit odd mechanically.

A Spellsword fits into much the same place in society as a fighter/wizard, any of a handful of the new base classes, or an elf in general. There's not a lot that's prestigious about it. I prefer the Eldritch Knight version of the concept, myself, though I'm probably influenced in that by its resemblance to the Elenium.

 

[Cthulhudrew]

A Spellsword fits into much the same place in society as a fighter/wizard, any of a handful of the new base classes, or an elf in general. There's not a lot that's prestigious about it. I prefer the Eldritch Knight version of the concept, myself, though I'm probably influenced in that by its resemblance to the Elenium.

I definitely agree with the sentiment about the Spellsword filling the same role as a Ftr/Mage. I'd definitely have to come up with some sort of "prestigious" concept/organization around it before I'd use it IMC. What I liked about it, though, is that- mechanically speaking- it offers something different than a simple Ftr/Wiz could get through multiclassing alone, which should be the point.

Also, to be fair, I noticed a lot of more "unique" concepts in the Arcane and Divine Complete books than I did in Adventurer and Warrior. For some reason, the spellcasters PrCs seem to have been given more unique niches and abilities than the other classes, which have the "cherry-pick favorite class abilities and combine" feel to me.

 

[Acid_crash]

I think it's easier to cherry pick the more combat related classes and not as easy to cherry pick the spellcasting classes...just compare the number of class abilities they get. With the exception of the druid, most spellcasting classes gain very few abilities, so PrC relating to them would have to get wildly new abilities.

 

[ajanders]

I've been looking through all the "Complete" books recently, as well as some other sources, to try to find some PrCs that would be suitable to use in a Mystara campaign setting, and what I'm finding more often than not are classes that "cherry pick" from abilities of two or more base classes, and don't really provide much new. To me, if a PrC doesn't provide something unique- more unique abilities than "standard" ones- then characters should have to multiclass.

Some examples of good and bad PrCs (IMO), from Complete Warrior:

Bad-

Darkwood Stalker- This is nothing more than a Ranger/Rogue/Assassin. The only "unique" ability it has is the Dodge Critical ability. Otherwise, it is just Rogue (sneak attack), Ranger (favored enemy), and Assassin (death attack).

I will confess to not having the Complete Warrior in front of me, but I believe Darkwood Stalkers are not required to be evil...which you would have to be to be if you took the assassin PRC as written.
That makes it more palatable to some people.

 

[Vigilance]

I think what the original poster is missing (or disagreeing with) is that PrCs in D&D are not bags of abilities, they are archetypes. Darkwood stalker has a much different connotation than assassin, a different feel because its a different archetype.

In many campaigns, cultures would look down on an elven kingdom for defending itself with a cadre of assassins. But Darkwood stalkers? Ahh... that's more like a special ops unit than cold-blooded killer.

Chuck

 

[Psion]

I definitely agree with the sentiment about the Spellsword filling the same role as a Ftr/Mage.

But they don't. A spellsword isn't woefully underpowered.

 

[HeavyG]

But they don't. A spellsword isn't woefully underpowered.

Personally, the prestige classes whose goal is to make a cool but underpowered combo viable are those I like best.

Then come the classes that are wildly different from base classes.

Classes that are nothing but "base class A, only better/more extreme", I couldn't care less about.

 

[Testament]

Personally, the prestige classes whose goal is to make a cool but underpowered combo viable are those I like best.

Then come the classes that are wildly different from base classes.

Classes that are nothing but "base class A, only better/more extreme", I couldn't care less about.

I like those ones as well. So I loved the Complete Adventurer, with its multiclass splice prestiging. Things like Sacred or Enlightened Fists are great as well.

What about things that are just weird, like the Daggerspell and Shadowbane classes? They're multiclass splices, but some really strange ones (like Paladin/Rogue).

On the other hand is things like the Radiant Servant of Pelor, aka the Cleric Plus. I agree that those are bad.

 

[DragonLancer]

My main issue with PrC's is simply that they are for the most part just specilisations. Especially for combat classes. Whatever happened to them being for specific orders/organisations within a campaign world, and few in number to boot?

Most PrC concepts are doable (without fancy new powers and abilities) as standard core classes or core class multiclassing. I believe that the fighter/mage combo doesn't need a PrC for it (as an example) because you gain the benefits of both classes but won't be as good if you stayed single class. Thats the trade off. To take a PrC just to overcome such that disadvantage makes the disadvantage pointless. That make sense?

YMMV