What Bugs Me About Prestige Classes

[ThirdWizard]

Why not just say that the Bandits of the Gnarly Wood are one of several groups which use the Order of the Bow Initiate prestige class?

That's not quite the point.

The player still has to design his character from level 1 knowing that he wants to take the PrC. He cannot while playing decide that he really likes Group A or Group B and gain the PrC that way. It isn't spontaneous in the least, and it is meta-gamey because some PrCs have prereques that exist for "balance" purposes. A dwarf can't discover that he wants to become a Dwarven Defender through meeting a group that uses that, he has to have Endurance and Toughness, which arn't the most common of feats.

So what you end up doing, which is what I've done, is the PC tells you at level 1 what they want to be then you create a situation in which they can get the PrC. I would rather have a situation in game where the player doesn't have to plan out his level progression at level 1, and can just play. Then as the game progresses the character determines where it should be going.

Now, sure, you don't have to pick up a PrC at the first level its available. Many are balanced with that in mind, however, and they might prove less powerful if you take the first level of one at 12 or so because that's the first you've aquired the prereques.

 

[Kaffis]

You know it's odd... Before starting work on my latest game, I'd have agreed with the OP about PrCs. But for some reason this game is shaping up differently. I think in large part it may have to do with the fact that my players aren't really looking for PrCs. They're planning their characters with the Core classes, and I find myself going, "Ooh, but that concept would fit fantastically with a Holy Liberator!" or "Gee, that character sounds like he'd be a perfect candidate for an Arcane Trickster..."

I'm finding myself excited at the prospect of introducing these PrCs into the campaign at some point, to give the players a chance to take them, if they like.

And honestly, that's the way prestige classes should function. The most effective (thematically) prestige classes are ones that typically should not be planned for. Ones that require an invitation into an Order, ones that require slaying a certain beast, etc. I think prestige classes work much better when the players go into the game with a character and an open mind, and the DM presents opportunities for prestige classes that the characters can either take or deny.

Not only does this seem (to me) to play better story-wise, and seem less forced than a player saying "I want to try to get into the x and be a y -- you're gonna hook me up, right?", but it allows the DM prestige class selection according to his campaign and tastes and sense of balance without having to turn down a player-initiated request.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

People wanted a list of bad PrCs.

Frenzied Berserker. (This should be obvious.)

Weretouched Master. (Sad, as it came from Eberron.)

Any archer PrC I've seen used except the Arcane Archer. (A friend of mine says he knows how to break that one, too, but I haven't seen it done in-game.)

Every spellcasting PrC I've seen used that didn't give up caster levels. I have yet to see an exception to this. The Red Wizard is the worst example from the core rules, IMO, as specialization isn't particularly balanced (this is assuming you're not using non-core stuff so I'm not talking about dozens of Conjuration spells from Complete Arcane) and it has Circle Magic on top of that.