What Changes to Inzeladun?
- Thread starter InzeladunMaster
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InzeladunMaster
First Post
thormagni said:
I'd be willing to try it.
Fyrestryke
Explorer
InzeladunMaster said:
That's fine with me.
Fyrestryke
Explorer
fred_jaboobi said:
That might provide a nice base. But, the problem (in my mind) remains that more things need to be changed/modified. What good is it if Inzeladun is just a different grouping of names, places, and people yet it's the same as Hyboria? Lamapacher=Aquilonia, Lamapachans=Aquilonians (I'm just throwing out names here, but I hope you get what I mean). What's the fun in that? Inzeladun needs to be different. The Conan rules (or Iron Heroes or Grim Tales or a wonderful mix of all three) would just be the basis for something that's even bigger, grander, and more interesting than Hyboria.
EnderTheElder
First Post
D&D is its magic system. Everything else in D&D boils down to having a probability and using some kind of random number generator to decide if the probability is actuality at a particular moment. Which pretty much describes any game that uses dice.
Every time I have played in a D&D world where somebody has tried to do a major overhaul to the D&D magic system (which is about half a doz times, including my own attempt once) it hasn’t worked out. I think one of the main reasons for this is that no matter how good of an idea you have it just doesn’t get the play testing time that you need to put into a change that big. Look at it like this, the D&D magic system has had more then 20 years of play testing, by who knows how many ppl, and it still has major problems and bugs.
The only modification that I know of that has been successful is Conan, but really it seem to me like it has been successful by basically eliminating magic and changing every other part of the game to reflect that change. Which points to how fundamental magic is to D&D because it basically proves that it is easier to make many major shifts in the non-magic rules then one shift to the magic rules.
Every time I have played in a D&D world where somebody has tried to do a major overhaul to the D&D magic system (which is about half a doz times, including my own attempt once) it hasn’t worked out. I think one of the main reasons for this is that no matter how good of an idea you have it just doesn’t get the play testing time that you need to put into a change that big. Look at it like this, the D&D magic system has had more then 20 years of play testing, by who knows how many ppl, and it still has major problems and bugs.
The only modification that I know of that has been successful is Conan, but really it seem to me like it has been successful by basically eliminating magic and changing every other part of the game to reflect that change. Which points to how fundamental magic is to D&D because it basically proves that it is easier to make many major shifts in the non-magic rules then one shift to the magic rules.
Grimhelm
First Post
I still like the idea of having a whole host of abilities/spells/skills (whatever you want to call them) available to everyone. You gain EXP. You spend the EXP on powers, whether it be fighter or magic. In essence, Ender, I think you are just agreeing that D&D is a flawed system. But, there are alternatives. I think a simple way to go about it is this: Spells require points to cast them, possibly even EXP or hit points. This way, you can cast several little spells, or one big one, but no more than that without endangering your own welfare. This would prevent massive spell casting. The flip side would be to tone down certain monsters. Still, as in Arenaia, one could choose to go the route of few monsters in the world. Most of the threats are human, therefore it is easy to create enemies to match a party's talents.
InzeladunMaster
First Post
Grim Tales magic forces a mage to burn his Constitution to cast spells. Unfortunately, Amazon cancelled my order for that product (unable to get it from publisher), so I am going to have to look for an alternative method of getting that one.
Conan uses a spell point system (among a whole host of other changes), but few of the spells have much of a melee combat use.
Ender is right though - just modifying DnD's magic just makes for a horrid system. It does not modify well unless everything is modified to reflect the initial modification. Introducing spell points means all the monsters have to be given spell points for their powers. Using XP means monsters need to be given XP totals.
Virtually removing the monsters is one way to handle the modification load. However, my vision of Inzeladun has always had monsters (they are a staple of myth, legend and fantasy) and I would like to retain that.
Conan uses a spell point system (among a whole host of other changes), but few of the spells have much of a melee combat use.
Ender is right though - just modifying DnD's magic just makes for a horrid system. It does not modify well unless everything is modified to reflect the initial modification. Introducing spell points means all the monsters have to be given spell points for their powers. Using XP means monsters need to be given XP totals.
Virtually removing the monsters is one way to handle the modification load. However, my vision of Inzeladun has always had monsters (they are a staple of myth, legend and fantasy) and I would like to retain that.
Grimhelm
First Post
Well, I guess I wasn't thinking of Inzeladun, but just my ideal gaming system. I think magic users should be like Gandalf in interpretation. Their power should come from knowledge. They could wield weapons and cast spells, but the powerful ones are going to cost them. I also think that there should be a difference between defense and offense. It seems to me that defensive spells should not require as much of a drain as offensive spells... The Bardic Lore ability is really so very Gandalf and mage like, in my opinion. I think that this sort of power should be given to the mage and not the bard, but...
And I like monsters, too, but a plethora somehow detracts from their power and mystery...
And I like monsters, too, but a plethora somehow detracts from their power and mystery...
InzeladunMaster
First Post
Grimhelm said:
Conan the Roleplaying Game did just that; they renamed it Knowledge is Power, but it is essentially the same ability and the sorcerers have it. It is also easier to defend magically than to attack magically in Conan.
Last edited:
Grimhelm
First Post
Well, let me say this. I have not yet played Conan, and probably won't due to lack of interest, but, if the system is all that it seems to be, it might make a very nice transition for Inzeladun. I must admit that I am slightly intrigued.
Somehow, though, IM, it seems that so much more needs to be changed in Inzeladun. Don't get me wrong here. I have always loved the world, but I think it is in severe need of being gutted like a Christmas turkey. What do I mean by this? Hmmm...
I don't see Inzeladun being raw or green anymore. This is how I feel, anyway. I think in some sense what I mean is that the DM and the players need a stage for their creativity, but the more props, the more sets, the more scenery that is already in place makes for a cramped stage. Even the DM's imagination, on some level, requires a blank canvas. Perhaps in some sense this was what Yam ibn Saud was ultimately about... tearing down everything that had come before him. I think that in some way, he really did want to destroy Inzeladun. And maybe it was a shame he didn't!
Please don't take this as a critique of Inzeladun's "failures". I do not see them as failures or shortcomings at all. I see them as the end result of a natural progression of how things grow and become stagnant. Inzeladun should be overthrown by Mindflayers, or whatever! It needs to change, drastically, I think, to be fresh again. The moment we become a little too attached to an artistic work, we should give it away.... at least, this is a feeling I sometimes get. All things grow and all things change and die. Could it be time for Inzeladun? I think so.
Somehow, though, IM, it seems that so much more needs to be changed in Inzeladun. Don't get me wrong here. I have always loved the world, but I think it is in severe need of being gutted like a Christmas turkey. What do I mean by this? Hmmm...
I don't see Inzeladun being raw or green anymore. This is how I feel, anyway. I think in some sense what I mean is that the DM and the players need a stage for their creativity, but the more props, the more sets, the more scenery that is already in place makes for a cramped stage. Even the DM's imagination, on some level, requires a blank canvas. Perhaps in some sense this was what Yam ibn Saud was ultimately about... tearing down everything that had come before him. I think that in some way, he really did want to destroy Inzeladun. And maybe it was a shame he didn't!
Please don't take this as a critique of Inzeladun's "failures". I do not see them as failures or shortcomings at all. I see them as the end result of a natural progression of how things grow and become stagnant. Inzeladun should be overthrown by Mindflayers, or whatever! It needs to change, drastically, I think, to be fresh again. The moment we become a little too attached to an artistic work, we should give it away.... at least, this is a feeling I sometimes get. All things grow and all things change and die. Could it be time for Inzeladun? I think so.
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