What class variants have you allowed or used?

[Plane Sailing]

One of the many things that I like about 3e is that it encourages you to negotiate with the DM for variants of existing classes. It even gives examples in both the PHB and the DMG of potential variant classes (e.g. ranger with only one favoured enemy but gains a paladin style mount at 5th level, a fighter who has a bit of rogue in him etc)

What I'd like to know is - what variants have you as DM's allowed in your game? What variants as players have you managed to negotiate with your DM's?

This could end up with some potentially controversial issues, so everyone play nice

(and I've put it here in Rules because it is an aspect of the core rules which I don't hear much talk about, and I wonder how other people handle it).

To start the ball rolling, I have a character who is basically a Ranger, but he has the Paladin spell list instead of the Ranger one. A few items are removed from the list (bless water, prayer) but otherwise it is used pretty much as is. The idea is that this character is less woodsman and more frontier marshal - an agent of justice but in a less formal and divine way than the paladin.

So what variants have YOU used?

 

[mikebr99]

Probably the most famous one... Monte's Alt. Ranger.

I am also considering using Monte's Alt. Sorcerer in the next campaign.

 

[Plane Sailing]

I think of those as entirely redesigned classes, rather than "mix and match" between existing classes!

 

[Crothian]

I'm playing the monte cook Ranger. We've had no problems with it.

In the past when I DMed I allows custom classes, trade this ability for that. The sylvan elf fighter got rid of most of the armor feats, and knew few weapons (bascially only what fit his culture) but picked up more skill points, more class skills, and a few feats that I picked for him.

 

[Gaiden]

In attempts to play nice - I have not seen the need (whatsoever) to alter any of the classes as are.

The reason: pure and simple...multiclassing. If you want a fighter with a bit of rogue in him, multiclassing rogue fighter is so easy that I have not found the need to alter any of the classes.

The ranger with Paladin spell list is a bit trickier. I think if I were DMing, I would simply suggest going for 5th level ranger and then going all paladin - this way you get two favored enemies and you will get up to 3rd level paladin spells.

Alternatively I would recommend taking simply one level of ranger for the track feat and progress the rest of the way in paladin to get the 4th level paladin spells. The only thing that would be missing from the ranger is the favored enemy and improved two weapon fighting. You could get the latter as a feat and in fact could make up for the former in terms of description with appropriate feats - perhaps the FRCS feat that gives you improved critical vs. a certain enemy, or one of the many MotW feats that are related to favored enemy.

It seems to me that 3e is so expansive and so flexible that tampering (yes, I know - loaded word) with any of the classes is simply not necessary.

(Also with the ranger having the paladin spell list, I believe there is a PrC that would do that anyway - think it was published in Dragon - not sure on that though [I don't remember the prereq's]).

 

[kreynolds]

It even gives examples in both the PHB and the DMG of potential variant classes (e.g. ranger with only one favoured enemy but gains a paladin style mount at 5th level, a fighter who has a bit of rogue in him etc)

Where is the variant class in the PH? I haven't heard of this. I only know of those in the DMG.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Re: Re: What class variants have you allowed or used?

Where is the variant class in the PH? I haven't heard of this. I only know of those in the DMG.

That Ranger variant is in the DMG - its somewhere near the page with the troll fighter picture, and it is part of a box on the lower RH page.

The fighter variant is near the end of one of the chapters... I don't have my books at work, otherwise I'd give you page numbers for these...

 

[kreynolds]

Re: Re: Re: What class variants have you allowed or used?

That Ranger variant is in the DMG - its somewhere near the page with the troll fighter picture, and it is part of a box on the lower RH page.

Like I said, I know of those in the DMG. I asked about those in the PH. I haven't heard of them.

The fighter variant is near the end of one of the chapters... I don't have my books at work, otherwise I'd give you page numbers for these...

Is this the one somewhere in the PH?

 

[Plane Sailing]

Alternatively I would recommend taking simply one level of ranger for the track feat and progress the rest of the way in paladin to get the 4th level paladin spells. The only thing that would be missing from the ranger is the favored enemy and improved two weapon fighting.

I think you are under a misapprehension - the ranger doesn't automatically gain improved two weapon fighting, it is just that his virtual feats qualify him for it, so he could choose it at 9th+ if he so wanted.

The biggest thing that would be missing is the rangers skill list - wide and varied, and one of the things that I wanted to keep. Going Paladin means a lot of extra baggage would be around - saving throws, lay on hands, turning, cure disease, mount, code of honour... not stuff I wanted for the character concept.

Basically I wanted to run a PHB ranger but with a different spell list, and my DM agreed that a relatively simple change would be to allow me to use the paladin spell list, which suited me

It seems to me that 3e is so expansive and so flexible that tampering (yes, I know - loaded word) with any of the classes is simply not necessary.

Then why do you suppose that the designers of 3e suggest (actually *suggest*) that people do it then??

Cheers

 

[Plane Sailing]

Re: Re: Re: Re: What class variants have you allowed or used?

Like I said, I know of those in the DMG. I asked about those in the PH. I haven't heard of them.



Is this the one somewhere in the PH?

I'm sorry, I misread your original post. Yes, it is the fighter-with-a-touch-of-rogue who is in the PHB. As I remember it is in a bunch of text in the middle of the second column of a page, probably a LH page... I'll look it up tonight and post the reference here.

Cheers