What core 3.5 race is the weakest?

[Westgate Polks]

Half-orcs may look weak on paper...

This analysis really should be done "on paper", because once the game starts then aspects of that game can change the balance. For example, a combat-heavy campaign will produce different results than a combat-light game.

Having said this, the weakest race "on paper" is the half-orc. To see this for yourself, make a generic character with 11's in all 6 abilities. Then apply all applicable racial modifiers and DO NOT assign any classes. This represents the "average" PC of each race and provides a baseline for comparative purposes.

Half-Orcs are the only race to take -4 in abilities at creation. Further, their INT penalty robs them of 4 skills points at first level and 1 skill point every level after that. Even using the simplest skill point distribution, this means Half-orcs have 1 less skill maxed than other races. Half-orcs are the only base race that gets ability modifiers that don't bump one saving throw (Dwarves and Gnomes: Con, Elves and Halflings: Dex).

Worse yet is the comparison of special abilities. In essence, this can be summarized as 'Half-orcs are considered orcs w/ darkvision'. This is wrong for a number of reasons. First off, Half-orcs are the only base race to suffer from an attack bonus against them possessed by another base race: the Dwarves (+1 attack vs. orcs). Second, Half-orcs and humans are the only races that do not get a bonus to at least 1 saving throw. Third, a closer examination reveals that a Half-orc is at LEASE 8 skill points behind any other race; let me explain. Dwarves get a +2 bonus to 2 skills, Elves get a +2 bonus to 3 skills, Gnomes get a +2 bonus to 2 skills, half-eves a total of +7 bonus to skills, Halflings get a +2 bonus to 4 skills, and humans get their human bonus (+4 at first level). Half-orcs get no bonus and suffer from a -1 to Int. that robs them of 4 skill points at first level.

Consider also the other abilities the remaining races get: stonecunning, stability, +4 dodge v. giants, immune to sleep, all the gnome spell-like abilities, etc. Half-orcs get none of them.

This is not to see that Half-Orcs cannot make viable characters; they certainly can. It is just appearant that Half-Orcs are not as strong as their base race kin and must be built with care.

I have the following house rules in place to help balance the races a bit:
1. Intimidate - works as either a CHR-based skill OR a STR-based skill. It makes no sense to me that the average Half-Orc (w/ a -2 CHR penalty) would be WORSE at intimidate than your average Elf or Human.
2. Half-Orcs get a +2 bonus to Intimidate (STR-based).
3. Half-Orcs gain weapon familiarity: Orc double-axe (identical to the Dwarven and Gnomish abilities pertaining to their ancestral weapons).
4. Half-orcs gain a +2 bonus to jump.

I believe these adjustments significantly close the gap between Half-Orcs and the other base races.

 

[PA]

i think what makes human such an attractive option is choice. you get to choose for yourself what the bonus feat is and what to spend the bonus skill ranks on.

i've had whole parties of players who all chose human characters because of the free feat and skill points. it's a powerful lure.

(whether that makes them quantitatively stronger than the other races i can't answer.)

At the very least, it is possible to say that the more feats from supplements a GM allows, the stronger Human becomes as a choice.

 

[PA]

Not that it really helps, but you would also get +10' movement in comparison!

Not even anymore, if you're in full plates!

And now a duel to the death:

Dwarven Cleric vs. Half-elven Bard

 

[PA]

So apparently, everyone thinks the dwarf is good. I just want to know why half-halfings and half-dwarves aren't core.

Dwarves are the über-race. They know it and don't want to dilute the blood. No half-dwarf.

 

[PA]

Extra +1 to hit and damage with melee weapons? woo. at least the halfelf has a nice role to play, people just like him.

Not from most people in this thread.

A mere skill bonus apparently doesn't cut it.

 

[Woas]

Bunch of votes for Halfling, but nobody piped up on why.

I voted halfling. Thats cause whenever I have to say or spell out the word halfling, I subconsiously want to say or spell out the word rogue. They seem so out of wack, with their Lawful Good goddess (Yollanda) and yet they are discribed as nomadic, which seems more like Chaotic than Lawful, and favored class of rogue which doesn't really spell out g-double o-d the way paladin does. All of the ro.. halflings abilities are geared to making a succesful rogue. Wizard or Sorcerer are doable, but really nothing other than the +2 Dex and extra saving throw modifiers are worthwhile.

 

[Thanee]

Not even anymore, if you're in full plates!

Yeah, as has been mentioned twice already.

But that's right, of course.
In our campaigns we see a lot more light armors than any other, tho.

The bonus mainly is, that the dwarf can wear full plate at no cost, which is pretty good for sure.

And now a duel to the death:
Dwarven Cleric vs. Half-elven Bard

My bet is on the Bard.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Blue]

Dwarves are the über-race. They know it and don't want to dilute the blood. No half-dwarf.

For some reason, since especially in 3.5, I rarely see a cleric that isn't a dwarf.

Dwarves are (obviously) good - not a single bad vote.

Elves have the -2 Con, but for some classes (wiz/sorc) the ability to use bows (free proficiency) and have a higher AC/chance to hit (from Dex mods) makes them very attractive, especially in a lower level game. Is it just me, or do elves still have more PrCs then everyone but the dwarves put together?

Halflings rock, except for the equipment size thing. (Not that you can'y buy weapons, but finding good small weapons.armor isn't happening much). Small size is almost as good as large size, just for different things.

Gnomes are good, small size and Con bonus scream to play a caster. But for some reason no one every plays 'em.

Humans with the feat, skill points, and favored class usually make up about 50% or more of any group I see.

I rarely see half-elves or half-orcs. Half orcs at least have a niche in comabat - the 24 strength raging 1st level barbarian half orc with a great axe is just scary. Half-elves don't even have that strong of a niche, so I have to vote for them.

Cheers,
=Blue

 

[d4]

Half orcs at least have a niche in comabat - the 24 strength raging 1st level barbarian half orc with a great axe is just scary.

i'd even have to dispute that. i think dwarves make better fighters and barbarians than horcs. the +1 attack and damage just doesn't IMO compensate for all the other advantages dwarves get. a 22 strength raging 1st level dwarf barbarian with a great axe is just as scary, and probably has a lot more hit points...

 

[Aust Diamondew]

Strongest race to weakest race in 3.5 IMHO:
1) Dwarf
2) Human
3) Halfling
4) Gnome
5) Elf
6) Half-Elf
7) Half-Orc

IMC I give both half human races the human's extra skill points. But the poor elves then become the weakest. The weapon proficiencies aren't that great and are worthless if you gain the proficiency from a class and immunity to sleep becomes useless later as well once the characters hit dice exceed 4 (unless you use sleeping poisons commonly, most opponents generally use more lethal poisons though).