What Cosmologies will exist in 4E? (Forked Thread: Previews: November and Beyond)

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Forked from: Previews: November and Beyond

If its in D&D, it has a potential place in Eberron. Everyone misinterprets that one.

Anyway, Eberron already has an exact duplicate of the Feywild (Thelanis). Heck, it actually has two flavors of Feywild (Lammania and Thelanis, even). Mabar is essentially the Shadowfell. They really won't have to change much.

Though, if they decide to mush together Risia, Fernia, Kythri and Syrania into one big elemental plane, I'll be rather miffed.

I don't understand this 'One cosmology to rule them all' stuff. FR, whatever, its cosmology was a mess anyway, but Eberron's is reasonably coherent and intrinsic to the setting.

This is one thing that I keep wondering about - why does everyone assume that the cosmology as described in the 4E Core Rulebooks is unchangeable and must be used in every setting for 4E?

Is it just because FR was adapted to this cosmology (which, according to another post in that thread, was more the other way around - FR 4E setting cosmology informed the PoL setting cosmology)

I never saw the Great Wheel as particularly critical to any of the 3E settings I knew of, and especially after reading the Manual of the Planes I expected most settings to define their own cosmology. Why would this be different in 4E?
The PoL cosmology is neat, and I find it a good starting point. But when putting out books for pre-existing settings, why should they always change their cosmology to the PoL model - I suppose for most settings, the original cosmology (if it existed) still makes sense and it's not like it invalidates the 4E rule system to make up a different one.

Did the WotC designers explicitely state that they never wanted to use a different cosmology somewhere? I don't believe so, and I also hope they are not planning that - I would like some new and different cosmologies, and I hope the Manual of the Planes will contain a lot of stuff in that direction!

 

[Fallen Seraph]

To add to this, even the Manual of The Planes which one would think be oriented around the PoL cosmology seems like it will show alternatives, based off this from the November preview:

A plane is an alternate reality, an otherworld that exists alongside the world of mortals. Some planes are small, no larger than a city of the mortal realm. Other planes are nearly infinite in expanse. The planes are a place where you can create literally any adventure or story you can imagine. Given the incredible possibilities the planes open up for your D&D campaign, it's a good idea for a Dungeon Master to decide exactly how he or she wants to use the material presented in Manual of the Planes. Here are a few suggestions.

It then describes the World Axis Cosmology. This to me says that there will be different formats of cosmology most likely described within the Manual of The Planes book.

I also see no reason why the same cosmology will exist throughout all settings. Even with the core cosmology in my own eyes being superior to the previous Great Wheel.

 

[haaz]

I you want to play with a cosmology different from the official one, you can ! ^^ The books are only guidelines for your games, feel free to not respect what WotC (and other) write !

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I you want to play with a cosmology different from the official one, you can ! ^^ The books are only guidelines for your games, feel free to not respect what WotC (and other) write !

That's not my "issue" - my issue is with assuming that WotC will never use a different cosmology for its setting and will try to shoehorn every setting into it. I neither believe that, and I definitely hope they will come up with different ideas. But I wonder why people believe this!

I will probably actually use the PoL cosmology once I start homebrewing again, because I find it refreshing and far more compelling then the Great Wheel.

 

[darjr]

Wait, what? Eberron has had a different cosmology from the wheel? Since it's inception?

If so, I never new. I've not gotten into any Eberron, I'd like to. But this is interesting.

I guess, if so, it means that WotC isn't afraid break from the 'systems' cosmology, and probably never really has been.

 

[justanobody]

That's not my "issue" - my issue is with assuming that WotC will never use a different cosmology for its setting and will try to shoehorn every setting into it. I neither believe that, and I definitely hope they will come up with different ideas. But I wonder why people believe this!

I will probably actually use the PoL cosmology once I start homebrewing again, because I find it refreshing and far more compelling then the Great Wheel.

A few quesitons and ideas.

1- Does LFR have its own cosmology outside of the PoL ideas?
2- Does FR itself have a new cosmology? (Isn't Lolth in the PHB?)

There is a possibility that re-using the same cosmology throughout will keep the game together for ease of use for games where a character may travel from one setting to another outside of, and in the event of RPGA using another setting and allowing characters to slide from area to area, without having to reassign any deities.

It would also make travel between them all easier as well if everything was bound by the Astral Sea, and all planes of fire are the same one from different settings, it just happens the worlds inhabit different locations in the D&D universe rather than a D&D multi-verse.

Then one could travel through the Astral Sea and get form one setting to another if they know the way for home games as well.

I wouldn't mind a cosmology for each setting as it gives them life, but can see reasons to keep the same cosmology throughout all products.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

A few quesitons and ideas.

1- Does LFR have its own cosmology outside of the PoL ideas?
2- Does FR itself have a new cosmology? (Isn't Lolth in the PHB?)

As I understood from the the thread I forked from, the current PoL and FR cosmology are the same, but apparently they build it originally as their new FR cosmology. I don't know why, but it appears to me that the Forgotten Realms cosmology was never stable and was retconned before - or just changed due to the way magic worked. (which is not retroactively changing the continuity).

There is a possibility that re-using the same cosmology throughout will keep the game together for ease of use for games where a character may travel from one setting to another outside of, and in the event of RPGA using another setting and allowing characters to slide from area to area, without having to reassign any deities.

It would also make travel between them all easier as well if everything was bound by the Astral Sea, and all planes of fire are the same one from different settings, it just happens the worlds inhabit different locations in the D&D universe rather than a D&D multi-verse.

Then one could travel through the Astral Sea and get form one setting to another if they know the way for home games as well.

I wouldn't mind a cosmology for each setting as it gives them life, but can see reasons to keep the same cosmology throughout all products.

I can see the point, but I think the benefit isn't as big. You can create very different cosmologies and still introduce a link between them - as long as you have a cosmology at all, anyone wanting to link them can still say "oh, and then there is this metaplane where you can, if you're lucky, visit other parts of the multiverse with different cosmologies...".

Not every setting needs a unique cosmology, but some can benefit from it - especially those that might already have interesting, pre-existing cosmologies.

 

[Kobold Avenger]

I suspect they'll probably have some mention of the Great Wheel, Eberron's Orerry cosmology, and maybe a bit about Krynn's and some other ones.

And while I do like the Great Wheel the most, I'm alright with some alternatives like that in Beyond Countless Doors, what matters the most to me is that the planes are well-designed and imaginative and not simply other dungeons.

 

[avin]

So, Sigil is a demiplane now?

Oh, wait...

 

[The Little Raven]

1- Does LFR have its own cosmology outside of the PoL ideas?

The "Points of Light" concept is about the World, not the cosmology. Any type of cosmology can be attached to a world in which points of light (civilization) twinkle in a sea of darkness (wild, untamed lands; evil-dominated regions; etc).

2- Does FR itself have a new cosmology? (Isn't Lolth in the PHB?)

As was pointed out, the World Axis cosmology was the one created for Forgotten Realms (with the change that FR had the Primordial Chaos, which was changed to Elemental Chaos), as the FR story team was working on their story bible and revisions before the implied setting was developed.