D&D (2024) What could One D&D do to bring the game back to the dungeon?

[James Gasik]

Some of that predated PF even. I don't know about different exp progression speeds but 3.5 had different pointbuy levels too (15/22/28/32) on dmg169, 5e dumped them though

Yeah, well, WotC wants to package D&D as the "game for all seasons", but it really isn't, and pretending otherwise is just going to leave everyone dissatisfied in the end.

 

[pemerton]

Ok so if "needing to be level 1" is required, then how about this.

Pathfinder 1e uses point buy, and they have suggested point buy totals based on the kind of game you want to run. So have "low power" "high power" "godlike" point totals suggested.

Pathfinder also had three xp charts for how fast you want people to level- if you're running a high power game, players level faster than in a low power game. *For those people who use milestone leveling, it doesn't matter if you don't track xp, you would be leveling players faster or slower based on the kind of game you're running, this is just to show DM's what they can do to capture the feel of the game they want.

Then, if you're running a high power game, players start with a 10 hit point "kicker" at level 1. If godlike, 20 hit points.

You all start at level 1, but obviously, the difficulty of the game and how quickly you cruise past the early levels and get to the power level you want will vary.

Sure. This is like Forbidden Island's flood tracker, which has clear labels like "novice" and "super-hard" (or whatever - my copy's in the cupboard so I'm going from memory).

Tell new players that so many points and such-and-such rate of advancement is for beginners; but if you want to play HARD once you've got a bit of experience with the game, then here are ways of dialling up the difficulty.

Gygax actually says similar stuff (though more wordily) in his DMG for AD&D.

 

[James Gasik]

Sure. This is like Forbidden Island's flood tracker, which has clear labels like "novice" and "super-hard" (or whatever - my copy's in the cupboard so I'm going from memory).

Tell new players that so many points and such-and-such rate of advancement is for beginners; but if you want to play HARD once you've got a bit of experience with the game, then here are ways of dialling up the difficulty.

Gygax actually says similar stuff (though more wordily) in his DMG for AD&D.

Gary never used three words when 12 would do. : )

 

[Clint_L]

Yeah, well, WotC wants to package D&D as the "game for all seasons", but it really isn't, and pretending otherwise is just going to leave everyone dissatisfied in the end.

Is it, though? Because D&D's sales and decades-long staying power would suggest otherwise.

 

[James Gasik]

Is it, though? Because D&D's sales and decades-long staying power would suggest otherwise.

Popularity and success as a product does not mean that a given product is the best for all users. Hence why I don't use Norton antivirus.

 

[Clint_L]

Popularity and success as a product does not mean that a given product is the best for all users. Hence why I don't use Norton antivirus.

If "everyone is dissatisfied" yet also continuing to buy the products and play the game...why would they do that? That seems like they would have to be very stupid or something. Is it possible that they feel differently about the game than you do? Aren't you sort of implying that the majority of D&D players have an inferior sense of what makes a game good?

Like, I think your implication is that D&D is like Norton Antivirus, and therefore its fans are kind of suckers. Is that what you are getting at? Isn't that super condescending?

 

[Malmuria]

Clearly a new rule is needed.

See One D&D DMG, page 1,107, "Using a Barrel to Knock Enemies Off Staircases"
"A barrel or similarly cylindrically shaped object, weighing no less than 50 pounds, may be rolled down a flight of stairs (see page 884 for definition of 'flight'), causing all creatures on the staircase to make Dexterity saving throws (DC of 8 + PB + Str modifier of the roller) and on a failure will be knocked to the bottom of the staircase (see page 1,372 for "Falling damage on uneven, less-than-vertical surfaces.). If a creature of size S or larger is in the barrel, the saving throws are made with disadvantage."

“you can throw a barrel down a flight of stairs a number of times equal to your proficiency bonus per long rest”

 

[Malmuria]

After you roll for a random encounter, there’s a procedure to follow for determining the context for that encounter. You have to role: 1. numbers appearing 2. encounter distance, and 3. reaction roll. All of those are critical rolls! I often forget to consider encounter distance, meaning that something that could be avoided for being far away cannot be because it’s right in the party’s face. So the procedure helps me keep track of what I need to roll for, and rolling (instead of deciding) helps to disclaim responsibility for setting up the parameters of the encounter.

 

[Maxperson]

I'd be interested in hearing more about this if you have the time to unpack it.

The simple explanation is human nature. It's easier for me to get the players to accept a new spell that I add to the game, than it is for me to remove one from the PHB that they've been using. The same goes for house rules. It's easier for me to add in a change or new rule than to remove one that the players have been using. People are more prone to be upset over something being taken away from them than given to them.

 

[Maxperson]

Honestly, it's been heading that way ever since the very beginning, as each new supplement or edition offers bigger and better options. There's always been players and DM's as well who want to "get to the good part" (as they see it) by starting at levels higher than 1, or using more benevolent methods of generating ability scores.

It wasn't even new supplements. The 1e DMG had 6 methods for rolling stats, some of which were much better than others at giving good stats.