D&D (2024) What could One D&D do to bring the game back to the dungeon?

[mamba]

I mean… The need to stipulate those things in session zero is what makes 5e discouraging to such play styles, whereas with another system, there might not be a need to stipulate such things because they’re a part of the core rules.

there are no core rules, we did not track that in 1e already because it was a nuisance to us.

I find the premise of ‘back to the dungeon’ flawed. If you want to be you can now just as well as then

 

[Reynard]

there are no core rules, we did not track that in 1e already because it was a nuisance to us.

I find the premise of ‘back to the dungeon’ flawed. If you want to be you can now just as well as then

Just asserting there's no difference between 5E and earlier editions isn't very compelling, especially since it is easily demonstrated as false. Lots of people in this thread has already pointed out a myriad of ways that 5E works against the dungeon crawl.

 

[Charlaquin]

there are no core rules,

What?

we did not track that in 1e already because it was a nuisance to us.

I’m not sure what you’re referring to that you didn’t track, but regardless, just because you and your group ignored a rule doesn’t mean that rule had no utility in the context of dungeon delving gameplay.

I find the premise of ‘back to the dungeon’ flawed. If you want to be you can now just as well as then

Ok, so then are you just here to threadcrap, or do you have something constructive to add?

 

[mamba]

Just asserting there's no difference between 5E and earlier editions isn't very compelling, especially since it is easily demonstrated as false. Lots of people in this thread has already pointed out a myriad of ways that 5E works against the dungeon crawl.

I am not saying there is no difference, but in either can you go into dungeons and track stuff (torches / time spent, arrows fired, ….) or not track stuff because you do not like all the bookkeeping

All I am saying is that I am certain that many people did not track it in 1e already.

 

[mamba]

What?

the group decides the rules they use, just because something is written in a book does not mean it gets used that way or even at all.

There were plenty people not keeping track of torches, feets of rope left or rations / water in 1e.

I’m not sure what you’re referring to that you didn’t track, but regardless, just because you and your group ignored a rule doesn’t mean that rule had no utility in the context of dungeon delving gameplay.

I did not say it didn’t. I said many ignored it

If you want more than the base game gives you, there are options. The base game is that for a reason and if this thread has shown anything it is that many people want different things, the base game cannot cater to all of them.

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www.drivethrurpg.com

 

[tetrasodium]

the group decides the rules they use, just because something is written in a book does not mean it gets used that way or even at all.

There were plenty people not keeping track of torches, feets of rope left or rations / water in 1e.

I did not say it didn’t. I said many ignored it

When the book doesn't bother to include the "something" or includes something that deloiberately makes it difficult or implausible to add it easily in a meaningful form as 5e frequently does it's not so simple as sdimply deciding otherwise

 

[mamba]

When the book doesn't bother to include the "something" or includes something that deloiberately makes it difficult or implausible to add it easily in a meaningful form as 5e frequently does it's not so simple as sdimply deciding otherwise

yes, you have to come up with your own rules or use somebody else’s. Plenty of options out there, including taking things from older editions.

Not sure you can get rid of whatever deliberately interferes though, as chances are WotC won’t get rid of that.
I am not really seeing anything interfering with a dungeon crawl, I do see things getting in the way of requiring micromanagement however.

If that is a core aspect of a dungeon crawl to you I am not sure 5e can help you with that, and more importantly I am pretty sure doing so would be a net negative.

 

[tetrasodium]

yes, you have to come up with your own rules or use somebody else’s. Plenty of options out there, including taking things from older editions.

Not sure you can get rid of whatever deliberately interferes though, as chances are WotC won’t get rid of that.
I am not really seeing anything interfering with a dungeon crawl, I do see things getting in the way of requiring micromanagement however.

If that is a core aspect of a dungeon crawl to you I am not sure 5e can help you with that, and more importantly I am pretty sure doing so would be a net negative.

That's where you get to the reason why 5e baked in poison pills targeted at making certain playstyles that can't be easily corrected without nerfing PCs to ensure that it's needlessly difficult to diverge from the one true way of 5e's efforts to avoid supporting any style.

 

[mamba]

That's where you get to the reason why 5e baked in poison pills targeted at making certain playstyles that can't be easily corrected without nerfing PCs to ensure that it's needlessly difficult to diverge from the one true way of 5e's efforts to avoid supporting any style.

that seems an overly negative perspective to me ('poison pills'). I don't think they intentionally sabotaged certain playstyles, rather they intentionally adopted more popular playstyles.

I am also not sure that happened in 5e, but I am not intrinsically familiar with all versions... to me this was de-emphasized in 2e already and even more so in later editions. What is an example of something that 5e specifically did and affects this that is not in 3e already?

 

[Charlaquin]

the group decides the rules they use, just because something is written in a book does not mean it gets used that way or even at all.

Obviously. There are still core rules. People are of course free to ignore or revise them if they wish, but that doesn’t make them not the core rules.

There were plenty people not keeping track of torches, feets of rope left or rations / water in 1e.

I did not say it didn’t. I said many ignored it

Yes, and?

If you want more than the base game gives you, there are options. The base game is that for a reason and if this thread has shown anything it is that many people want different things, the base game cannot cater to all of them.

Interesting that you claim there are no core rules but still talk about the base game. Anyway, the fact of the matter is that yes, you can go outside of the base game of 5e to add rules that make for more of a dungeon crawler experience. But the fact that you need to do so is what makes it less suited to dungeon crawling at base than some other editions were. The point of this thread is to ask, what rules outside the base would be needed or desirable to make 5e a better dungeon crawler experience than it is at base. If all you have to say is “use house rules or 3rd party,” you’re not contributing anything to the thread. What house rules or 3rd party rules would you recommend for this purpose. If you wouldn’t recommend any, why are you here?