D&D 4E What D&D 4e Should Learn From World of Warcraft

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Just to be clear, I don't have a problem with that - but IN WoW. I play WoW and enjoy it for what IT is. I have a problem with the idea of that being something that D&D should emulate, or needs to learn from. There probably ARE things that D&D could, maybe even should, learn from WoW. I was just emphasizing that THAT will never be one of them.

Well, like I said, there are some games that do this. Ultima Online, Horizons, Shadowbane, Star Wars Galaxies and a few others let players build buildings and create settlements and do so, I think, in an instance-free environment, so if someone kills a dragon, it's gone (until it respawns, the speed of which varies by game). But they can create their own settlements and someone else can come along and knock it down -- that was the entire basis of Shadowbane, in fact.

I imagine that, for the designers that like this stuff, there will be more and more of this over time. The problem, though, is that players tend to like stuff that's hand-designed by the developers, while games like SWG have randomly generated content to be able to keep up with players going into random areas and doing random stuff. So while one could, in theory, develop a game that allowed players a LOT more freedom, it would either require a lot of less satisfying content from the game or it would require a huge lead time and a lot more money to develop. (Under current technology.)

I think NeverWinter Nights points to a third path, one which I think a lot of the folks complaining about WoW's limited options would likely end up preferring: Instead of being in the same world with 5,000 other adventurers (hey, it's the Forgotten Realms!), you can have a not-MMO game with, say, 100 adventurers and multiple DMs modifying the game on the fly, inhabiting "name" NPCs to give quests and the like and allowing more interaction. The problem with this -- again, with today's technology -- is either you have to put up with this being by fans, for fans, with the attendant randomness in quality or you have to pay a LOT more to get dedicated DMs waiting to serve your every insane whim. (Although I haven't found a D&D game where DMs were that accomodating, but anyway.)

Honestly, if I could play WoW with a smaller population, I would. I think that's one of the advantages of some of the less-successful MMOs: Instead of having every square inch of Istaria or Norrath or Paragon City crawling with other adventurers, you and your friends get to be a bit more special. Of course, if it slips down TOO low in population, the game doesn't really work that well, since most MMOs are designed to expect a certain level of coordination between different characters.

 

[Orius]

I think NeverWinter Nights points to a third path, one which I think a lot of the folks complaining about WoW's limited options would likely end up preferring: Instead of being in the same world with 5,000 other adventurers (hey, it's the Forgotten Realms!), you can have a not-MMO game with, say, 100 adventurers and multiple DMs modifying the game on the fly, inhabiting "name" NPCs to give quests and the like and allowing more interaction. The problem with this -- again, with today's technology -- is either you have to put up with this being by fans, for fans, with the attendant randomness in quality or you have to pay a LOT more to get dedicated DMs waiting to serve your every insane whim. (Although I haven't found a D&D game where DMs were that accomodating, but anyway.)

Yeah, a well built and run PW in NWN is pretty good. Kind of like a mini-MMO, and good DMs make a normally static world more dynamic. The downside are PWs that have very little activity, especially if the designers of the PW are assuming there's going to be a dozen or so people on at once.

A real touchy issue here is PvP. On one hand, PvP can be a satisfying way to deal with jerk players; killstealers, ninja looters, or just morons with big mouths. But OTOH, NWN is D&D based, and it's definitely not balanced for PvP; just try to PK a NWN-based CoDzilla or tweaked out wizard and you'll know what I mean.