What Did You Want Fourth Edition to be Like?

Aeolius

Adventurer
I see 3.5 as D&D done right. It needed a few tweaks but it got as close to 'perfect' as any rules system I have ever read... I fall into the group that thinks 4E is in fact not D&D at all.

That about sums it up for me, as well. I started playing D&D in 1979, skipped 2e as I didn't care for it, and returned to the fold with 3e. I hesitantly admit that I like 3e/3.5e/d20 SRD better than 1e.

What did I want from 4e? Compatibility. I converted a 1e game to a 3e game without so much as a hiccup. Here comes 4e saying "End your 3e games. Conversion is all but impossible. Resistance is futile." A "Grognard's Guide to Playing 4e (like 3.5e)" would have been appreciated.

4e also needlessly disrupted my fluff. Succubi as devils? No ethereal plane? I have to buy 9 books to get what I got in 3 books with 3.5e? Meh.
 

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SpydersWebbing

First Post
I knew what I didn't want: a continuation of 3.5. My last campaign I had two power games completely ruin DMing in 3.5 for me. Now, I know I should have restricted everything to core, but good Lord I didn't know better. Regardless, within 3 months 3.5 was irrevocably ruined for me. I WANTED game balance, because as a DM it was so much easier to design adventures for people who couldn't take on four creatures double their level and come out completely unscathed. I like epic play, but I couldn't put up with the broken crap that 3.5 put out for it.

I wanted 4th to be fun and easy, so I could get on with designing. I wanted epic level play to be awesome.

Then 4th game. I got my epic level play, and it was truly awesome. I could design a character without having to look through a dozen source books and have it come out GOOD and usable! I enjoyed the fluff changes in 4th, because it actually mirrors alot of the classical mythology better than any previous edition of the game (especially the fey. Good lord the Irish were creepy people), and gave me some ideas of looking back into that era of storytelling.
 


ferratus

Adventurer
I'm not sure I get the whole attitude of "D&D should be like edition X" when there already is those editions. Even if you want "like edition X but cleaned up" there are lots of opportunities to get new rules, new adventures, new campaign guides and settings for any edition of D&D you'd like to have. OSRIC, Pathfinder, Hackmaster, Lejendary Journeys, and so forth all exist for your convenience. Even if Habsro/WotC eventually decide that there is no money to be made in the RPG industry and box the property, they'll probably still license it or a new pseudo-D&D game will fill the void.

I would rather a new edition not be afraid to experiment, even if it is a flop or a mistake. I think an edition should be scrutinized as to what it could do better, or what aspects of the edition ultimately fail to deliver on what the design goals are. One should keep in mind that a new edition is trying to achieve different goals with a different design team as well.

But the whole idea that the experiments that 4e is doing is a personal insult to you and the game you love is just plain silly.
 


I'm A Banana

Potassium-Rich
A ground-up mending of 3e's problems, basically.

The rituals were a wonderful solution to a "wizard can do anything" problem.

Adding variety and power to fighters and the like (e.g.: a sort of martial powers system) solved their vanilla problem.

Evening out The Maths and introducing a new save system (and getting rid of most save-or-die effects) solved the swingy combat problem at high and low levels.

The skill system needed consolidation.

The monster-building system needed streamlining.

The "conditions" are great and consolidated (especially simplifying grappling). Ability damage needed to stop the massive cascading effects that it triggered.

I would have also liked to see more work done on the DM support side, a step-by-step analysis of building an adventure into a campaign, and, perhaps, advice that concentrated on being simple, straightforward, and elegant, introducing people to D&D one small step at a time.

The "20 minutes of fun crammed into 4 hours" was (and STILL IS) a legitimate problem.

What I didn't really want, or need, was a re-examination of what D&D was. I knew what D&D was, for me and my players. I had been playing for years with the style I wanted. I had brought on many, many newbies. I didn't need to be told that the simulationist and narrativist elements I loved were getting in the way of ALL FIGHTING ALL THE TIME, which I didn't even like that much in 3e because of the grid-based nature of it. I didn't need to have this tremendous wall of accessories, time, and space between me and my D&D game. I didn't need the Vancian system to take possession of my game like some Cthuloid horror of universal class symmetry (I didn't LIKE wizards in previous editions, dudes!).

What I needed was a way to play my game better, not a way to play WotC's minis combat game.
 


morgul97

First Post
Fixing what was broke with 3E, not a completely new system. :mad:

If WotC had fixed the half dozen things that people often site as being seriously wrong with 3.5 and put it out as 4th edition, then people would be griping that it really is just 3.75 and not a truly "new edition." We'd have twice the griping that we had when 3.5 came out regarding Wizards just wanting to take money from people, etc.

When talk of a Fourth edition came out, most people around here said they thought it was too soon, but those who thought they had been ripped off to a large extent with 3.5 said they would be cool with it if it the new edition was truly different. That's what it is. It's the same core principles, only it's different and in many ways more modern. What's wrong with that? That's what people said they wanted.
 

JackSmithIV

First Post
I can't believe this thread is really happening.

~ I can't believe that you are threadcrapping in a thread in which you have no interest. Don't do it again. ~
 
Last edited by a moderator:

morgul97

First Post
Fixing what was broke with 3E, not a completely new system. :mad:

If WotC had fixed the half dozen things that people often site as being seriously wrong with 3.5 and put it out as 4th edition, then people would be griping that it really is just 3.75 and not a truly "new edition." We'd have twice the griping that we had when 3.5 came out regarding Wizards just wanting to take money from people, etc.

When talk of a Fourth edition came out, most people around here said they thought it was too soon, but those who thought they had been ripped off to a large extent with 3.5 said they would be cool with it if it the new edition was truly different. That's what it is. It's the same core principles, only it's different and in many ways more modern. What's wrong with that? That's what people said they wanted.
 

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