What Do You Expect of Published Adventures?

[Retreater]

Many of my disagreements on this board stem from my expectations of adventures, specifically Adventure Paths and campaign adventures like we've seen from Paizo and Wizards of the Coast, respectively. If you want to read my negative commentary, take a look at my Post-Mortem threads.
D&D 5E - Rime of the Frostmaiden Post-Mortem (Spoilers)

Pathfinder 2E - PF2: Second Attempt Post Mortem

I'm posting this to collect my thoughts and share the experience I had running PF2 for a second group in a second campaign. In no way am I trying to fault the players in either of the groups (some of whom frequent these boards), nor am I saying that anyone's opinions of PF2 are wrong. If you...

www.enworld.org

Here's what I think a published campaign adventure should have:
1) Motivation for the characters (and their players) to go on the adventure.
2) A story/plot/background that the GM can convey to the players - and the logical means of sharing that information naturally within the adventure.
3) Clear goals, which are more or less achievable (by sword, spell, or wits) by the character level range indicated by the adventure.
4) A unified theme building up to a satisfying climactic resolution
5) Consistency and logical story/world building.
6) A compelling villain, antagonist ("conflict" to use a literary term)

Of course you need maps, enemies, encounters, treasures, traps, etc. But without the things I mentioned above, you have an adventure site, not a campaign. There are additional items I prefer to see in my adventures, but I think without the above, you're not going to have a successful campaign without adding lots of additional work.

 

[Parmandur]

Primarily, maps and combat encounters planned out. As modular as possible for retinkering.

 

[Umbran]

1) Motivation for the characters (and their players) to go on the adventure.

How do you suppose they could provide that, when they don't know the characters? If they provided a list of generic motivations, would you call them out for being generic motivations that you could come up with yourself that don't add value to the product?

 

[Yora]

What I want: Material tailored to make it easy for GM's to run a game, preferably with less preparation required than making your own adventures, and with areas and scenes where you can quickly see at a glance how it's supposed to work if you don't remember what the section was about. Also situations that allow the players to shape events and determine the ultimate outcome through their actions.

What I anticipate: None of the above.

 

[Retreater]

How do you suppose they could provide that, when they don't know the characters? If they provided a list of generic motivations, would you call them out for being generic motivations that you could come up with yourself that don't add value to the product?

If you're playing an Adventure Path or Campaign Adventure, I think there's an assumption that you want to be tied into the plot of a campaign that can run from 1st-12th levels (or higher). Designers could bake that into the adventure.
But if not that, why not quests that could appeal to a variety of players or could be modified to fit their characters?
1) Your friend/relative has not returned from the dungeon.
2) A holy item was stolen from a temple under your charge.
3) You've been stricken by a curse that requires bathing in the pool in the enchanted forest.
Use a template like this. The writer can add the proper nouns as appropriate to their adventure. And then put a captive in the dungeon that could be the character's friend or relative. Put a holy item in the dungeon, protected by a mini-boss. Put that enchanted pool in the forest.
A writer doesn't have to know the characters. They just have to provide some interaction with the outside world, some feasible "way in" for the party. There was none in Abomination Vaults, for example.

 

[aco175]

2) A story/plot/background that the GM can convey to the players - and the logical means of sharing that information naturally within the adventure.

I like to have something, but not something that is too specific to the writer's campaign. The original intent of the dungeon may have been a tomb and not goblins occupy most of it, but the old flavor should still exist and some of the old things may not have been found until the PCs come along. Some of the old stuff should be shared through carvings or an old map the PCs came upon. Maybe a secret cache with a tome or even a magic mouth spell.

 

[jdrakeh]

Many of my disagreements on this board stem from my expectations of adventures, specifically Adventure Paths and campaign adventures like we've seen from Paizo and Wizards of the Coast, respectively. If you want to read my negative commentary, take a look at my Post-Mortem threads.
D&D 5E - Rime of the Frostmaiden Post-Mortem (Spoilers)

Pathfinder 2E - PF2: Second Attempt Post Mortem

I'm posting this to collect my thoughts and share the experience I had running PF2 for a second group in a second campaign. In no way am I trying to fault the players in either of the groups (some of whom frequent these boards), nor am I saying that anyone's opinions of PF2 are wrong. If you...

www.enworld.org

Here's what I think a published campaign adventure should have:
1) Motivation for the characters (and their players) to go on the adventure.
2) A story/plot/background that the GM can convey to the players - and the logical means of sharing that information naturally within the adventure.
3) Clear goals, which are more or less achievable (by sword, spell, or wits) by the character level range indicated by the adventure.
4) A unified theme building up to a satisfying climactic resolution
5) Consistency and logical story/world building.
6) A compelling villain, antagonist ("conflict" to use a literary term)

Of course you need maps, enemies, encounters, treasures, traps, etc. But without the things I mentioned above, you have an adventure site, not a campaign. There are additional items I prefer to see in my adventures, but I think without the above, you're not going to have a successful campaign without adding lots of additional work.

That's a good list. Especially #2. Some of the WotC hardcover adventures have amazing story/plot/background information - that the PCs have absolutely no way of discovering/knowing naturally within the adventure as written. It's a complaint that I've heard from several DMs.

 

[Lanefan]

Many of my disagreements on this board stem from my expectations of adventures, specifically Adventure Paths and campaign adventures like we've seen from Paizo and Wizards of the Coast, respectively. If you want to read my negative commentary, take a look at my Post-Mortem threads.
D&D 5E - Rime of the Frostmaiden Post-Mortem (Spoilers)

Pathfinder 2E - PF2: Second Attempt Post Mortem

I'm posting this to collect my thoughts and share the experience I had running PF2 for a second group in a second campaign. In no way am I trying to fault the players in either of the groups (some of whom frequent these boards), nor am I saying that anyone's opinions of PF2 are wrong. If you...

www.enworld.org

Here's what I think a published campaign adventure should have:
1) Motivation for the characters (and their players) to go on the adventure.
2) A story/plot/background that the GM can convey to the players - and the logical means of sharing that information naturally within the adventure.
3) Clear goals, which are more or less achievable (by sword, spell, or wits) by the character level range indicated by the adventure.
4) A unified theme building up to a satisfying climactic resolution
5) Consistency and logical story/world building.
6) A compelling villain, antagonist ("conflict" to use a literary term)

Of course you need maps, enemies, encounters, treasures, traps, etc. But without the things I mentioned above, you have an adventure site, not a campaign. There are additional items I prefer to see in my adventures, but I think without the above, you're not going to have a successful campaign without adding lots of additional work.

That's all I want from a published adventure: an adventure site. From an AP book a la the WotC hardcovers, I want a series of adventure sites; I'll connect them together myself.

All of what's in points 1, 2, and 3 above is stuff that I (or the players) will be providing in whatever context the adventure (or AP) is set, so I don't need any of that in the book.

Point 5 is absolutely vital.

What I really would like to see more of in published adventures is at least some consideration for obvious "what if"s. Far too many adventure writers make the mistake of assuming the PCs will do or not do certain things, go in certain directions, and so forth; and when the players/PCs do something different the DM is left with no choice but to wing it - which would be fine except whatever she dreams up has to be consistent with the written module, and this can be damn hard to pull off.

A made-up example might be an adventure where the party is supposed to explore a castle. The author assumes the party will find a way in on the ground floor - the front door, a window, a postern door, whatever - and writes accordingly; never once considering that even the lowest-level of parties probably have some means of accessing the roof and going in that way. (even worse; though the module might mention guards on the roof as the PCs approach there's no means of interior access shown on the map, thus when the PCs get up there and start looking for a way inside - those guards got up here somehow! - the DM is hung out to twist)

A very common result of this type of thinking is boxed text that assumes (without saying so) the party will come in to a room or area through a particular entrance even though there are two other doors and a window they could come through via outside-the-box thinking and-or navigation. Any time you see descriptive boxed text referring to "left", "right", "ahead", and-or "behind" rather than compass directions you'll know you've hit one of these.

Another obvious what-if that's all too commonly overlooked is "what if the PCs fail?", either at a key moment within the adventure or at the overall mission. What happens next?

In some cases it's fairly obvious: failure to beat the Giants means the Giants just go on with their lives and maybe have some tasty tasty characters for the cookpot tonight.

But in some cases it's not, and for this one I have a poster-child example: H1 Keep on the Shadowfell. In that one the whole thing revolves around the final encounter, which is a typical-for-4e-D&D big set-piece battle* with lots of moving parts; yet there's no guidance given as to what happens should the PCs interact with some of those moving parts (e.g. what if, like some of my players' PCs, they attack the thing being summoned instead of those doing the summoning? or, is there any way they can shut it down via stealth rather than combat?), nor to what happens should the PCs lose that battle (very relevant should some of them survive and be able to retreat). I've run many a canned module and none has left me pulling my hair out the way the end of that one did.

* - big set-piece battle scenes are IME and IMO a real strong point of 4e's adventure modules.

 

[John R Davis]

#2 is the kicker for me. In way too many PF1 APs so much the PCs will never know. PLUS.
An adventure should be crammed with stuff for the PCs to do, way too much stuff in PF APs and some of the WOTC the PCs never get to play with

 

[Jd Smith1]

The biggest thing I want is a synopsis of the scenario, with all hooks and major players, right up at the front. I won't wade through the entire product to find out what is going on.

The second thing is good maps.

Thirdly, I could do without the stat blocks. That data is available for free via Google, so stop wasting pages and cluttering up the product.

Fourthly, quite suggesting courses of actions for the PCs. Players are generally twisted individuals and will come up with strange and convoluted plans (or just barge in and kill everyone), so again, quit puffing up the word count.

All I need are maps, location descriptions, a crisp summary of the major players & their goals, intentions, and resources, and a concise summary of the plot a the front. I'll do the rest, and odds are good I'll change a lot of things, anyway.