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D&D General What do you think about Wizard's canon changes for the Forgotten Realms?

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Rafael Martin

Adventurer
What do you think about Wizard's canon changes for the Forgotten Realms? I read the article below, and I support the changes WOTC is making. This is a positive step forward for the development of the game. Let me know what you think.
 

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Scribe

Hero
What do you think about Wizard's canon changes for the Forgotten Realms? I read the article below, and I support the changes WOTC is making. This is a positive step forward for the development of the game. Let me know what you think.
Trash change. :)
 


eyeheartawk

Works 60% of the time, every time
Are there any specific canon changes that are new?

Also, I mean, let's be real here. These are changes to the Sword Coast and Icewind Dale. Somehow I think the rest of the Realms are safe.

forgottenrealms.PNG
 

Snarf Zagyg

Notorious Liquefactionist
As a Greyhawk stan, I used to have strong opinions about the Forgotten Realms.

Now, I'm indifferent to those changes.


However, as someone who has 1,437 essays* on the D&D multiverse, and why that's a good thing, I am ecstatic that we are going back to the general idea of multiple Marvel-like planes.

That said, as someone who, in their dotage, still views M:TG as "that silly card game that will never amount to much,"** I am less-than-enamored by speculation that 6e will just be about crossing the streams.


*Numbers are approximate, but it feels like that.

**I may have been wrong. What ever happened with that Wizards company and their silly card game, anyway? TSR crushed them, right?
 


eyeheartawk

Works 60% of the time, every time
That said, as someone who, in their dotage, still views M:TG as "that silly card game that will never amount to much,"** I am less-than-enamored by speculation that 6e will just be about crossing the streams.
Same. If this was posted a couple of years ago I would have likely shrugged that off as unlikely.

Now?

Not so much.

I mean, not only are there two full setting guides for MTG that are extant right now, there are a further number of Plane Shift documents available as well in addition to an upcoming Magic setting that is new to both the card game and D&D (so not a release spurred on by customer demand, safe to say).

On the other hand, you have Ravenloft and Eberron that got a full treatment for actual D&D settings, while the "main setting for most of D&D" gets nothing of the sort (SCAG is poop and really lacking) so about 90% of Faerun is flatly ignored.

All of that doesn't inspire much confidence in me that Wizards intends to not merge them.
 


Voadam

Legend
The article seems to be talking about WotC's statements that RPG canon is separate from novels, and each edition of the RPG is different separate canon from the others instead of a continuous one, similar to Marvel cinematic universe versus marvel comics. WotC had also said that only the three core books are canon, so essentially there is no setting canon outside of those books.

I think that the canon for settings should be continuous, like FR having a mostly continuous canon from 1e to 2e to 3e to 4e to 5e that includes the different media. I am not looking forward to a lot of new reconceptualized and rebooted FR incompatible visions for comics and movies and computer games and RPG modules.

The article also seems to be complaining about WotC making adjustments on racial stats and such. Which is a whole different tangent.

The article does not seem to be about things like WotC removing official references to the Wall of the Faithless in an errata document for the Sword Coast guide. Which is what I thought this thread was going to be about. :)
 

Snarf Zagyg

Notorious Liquefactionist
The article does not seem to be about things like WotC removing official references to the Wall of the Faithless in an errata document for the Sword Coast guide. Which is what I thought this thread was going to be about. :)

I never understood the whole Wall of Faithless thing.

Other than the small issue of maybe being a wee bit offensive, there's the separate issue of not making sense. Think about it... if you are in a world with cleric casting spells given to them by deities, it would be pretty hard to say, "Yeah, those gods don't exist."

It's crazy! It would be like someone today saying, "Okay, I understand time zones, and space travel, and GPS, and all that, but c'mon ... the world isn't really round."

....oh, wait. Drat!
 


Charlaquin

Goblin Queen
What a terrible article. Seems like whoever wrote it completely missed the point.

Nothing has changed, WotC just stated out loud what their approach to canon has been all along. People who are working themselves into a tizzy over this supposed major change are overreacting.
 

But my, it's been quite a few years for the sword coast

Out of the Abyss (1485 DR or later)
Hoard of the Dragon Queen and Rise of Tiamat (1489 DR)
Icewind Dale: Rime of the Frostmaiden (Winter, 1489 DR)
Storm King’s Thunder (1490 or 1491 DR)
Lost Mine of Phandelver (Starter Set) (1491 DR)
Princes of the Apocalypse (1491 DR)
Curse of Strahd (1491 DR)
Tomb of Annihilation (1490 or 1491 DR)
Waterdeep: Dragon Heist and Waterdeep: Dungeon of the Mad Mage (1492 DR)
Dragons of Icespire Peak (Essentials Kit) (1492 DR)
Candlekeep Mysteries (1492 DR)
Descent Into Avernus (1494 DR)
Acquisitions Incorporated (1496 DR)

demons, elemental princes and cults, dragonic cults, giants, A death curse and more all happening one after another or simultaneously and yet barely interacting with each other as if they were actually in the same world. This is why I can't take FR (or concerns about canon) that seriously
 

Remathilis

Legend
I think the author is gazing at clouds and calling it journalism. If the idea was to use MTG lore, you wouldn't have seen

  • Ravenloft intsead of Innistrad, especially with a 2 set block of Innistrad coming out.
  • Witchlight using the feywild rather than Eldraine.
  • A promise of two additional classic settings and a revisited one.
  • Fizban, Tasha, and other D&D personalities headlining books instead of Jace, Lilliana, or Tefferi.

D&D is going to make edits to the lore, but there isn't going to be a wholesale rejection of it. Clickbait that would make We Got This Covered proud.

Next.
 

Remathilis

Legend
But my, it's been quite a few years for the sword coast



demons, elemental princes and cults, dragonic cults, giants, A death curse and more all happening one after another or simultaneously and yet barely interacting with each other as if they were actually in the same world. This is why I can't take FR (or concerns about canon) that seriously
However, there are a few of those adventures that are either localized (Starter sets, the Waterdeep modules), only tangentially related (Strahd's connection to the Realms is some werewolves lead some dumb PCs into the mists) or short lived. It's about akin to the sevetal catastrophes that the Marvel universe endures regularly that the Avengers, Fantastic Four, X-Men, Defenders, Guardians of the Galaxy, and Spiderman are all solving separately in thier own titles.
 



Voadam

Legend
I never understood the whole Wall of Faithless thing.

Other than the small issue of maybe being a wee bit offensive, there's the separate issue of not making sense. Think about it... if you are in a world with cleric casting spells given to them by deities, it would be pretty hard to say, "Yeah, those gods don't exist."

It's crazy! It would be like someone today saying, "Okay, I understand time zones, and space travel, and GPS, and all that, but c'mon ... the world isn't really round."

....oh, wait. Drat!
I was never quite sure what the required belief was to avoid the wall, the existence of a god or their specific creed. It seems like non-denominational people get thrown in.

2e Faiths and Avatars pages 2-3 "A person’s patron deity is the power that eventually escorts that person’s spirit from the Fugue Plain, the place where spirits go right after people die, to its afterlife as a petitioner in the Outer Planes in the realm (or at least the plane) of its patron deity. (Those who firmly deny any faith or have only given lip service most of their lives and never truly believed are known as the Faithless after death. They are formed into a living wall around the City of Strife—Kelemvor, the new lord of the dead, may soon rename it—in the realm of the dead in Oinos in the Gray Waste and left there until they dissolve. The unearthly greenish mold that holds the wall together eventually destroys them. The False, those who intentionally betrayed a faith they believed in and to which they made a personal commitment, are relegated to eternal punishment in the City of Strife after their case is ruled upon by Kelemvor in the Crystal Spire (Kelemvor’s abode in the City of Strife)"

3e Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting page 39:

"Everyone in Faerûn knows that those who die without having a patron deity to escort them to their proper judgement in the land of the dead spend eternity writhing in the Wall of the Faithless, or disappear into the hells of the devils or the infernos of the demons."

"Of more concern to most adventurers, a character who dies without a patron deity cannot be raised from the dead by any mortal means short of a miracle or wish. When such a character dies, he is considered one of the Faithless, and his soul is used to form part of the wall around the realm of Kelemvor, god of the dead. Mortal action cannot reverse this fate, and so unless the character’s friends can arrange direct intervention by another deity (or expend a miracle or wish, spells symbolizing intervention by another deity), that character is unlikely to return to life. (See the Cosmology section of Chapter 5: Deities for more information.)"

Page 232: "Everyone in Faerûn knows that those who die without having a patron deity to send a servant to collect them from the Fugue Plane at their death spend eternity writhing in the Wall of the Faithless or disappear into the hells of the devils or the infernos of the demons.
For more information on patron deities, see the Religion section of Chapter 1: Characters."

Page 259:

"While most souls wander the Fugue Plane until their deity calls them, the Faithless and the False are compelled to enter the city and be judged by Kelemvor. The Faithless firmly denied any faith or only gave lip service to the gods for most of their lives without truly believing. The False intentionally betrayed a faith they believed in and to which they had made a personal commitment.
All of the Faithless receive the same punishment: They form a living wall around the City of Judgment, held together by a supernatural greenish mold. This mold prevents them from escaping the wall and eventually breaks down their substance until the soul and its consciousness are dissolved."
 


I think it's dumb. But in the last few years, i have realized that i don't care what WoTC does with d&d or mtg. I don't buy their stuff, so I'm not the target market.
 

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