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D&D 5E What do you think of Fizban's races, subclasses feats and spells?

ECMO3

Hero
Here is my take S/A/B/C/D/F:

Races
Chromatic: C
Metallic: B
Gem: C

Subclasses (as compared to other subclasses for that class)
Monk: Ascendant Dragon: A
Ranger: Drakewarden: C

Feats (with ASI being a B)
Gift of the Chromatic Dragon: D
Gift of the Gem Dragon: B
Gift of the Metallic Draggon: C

Spells:
Nathair's mischief: D
Rime's Binding Ice: A
Ashardalon's Stride: B (S for a Ranger or EK)
Raulothm's Psychic Lance: A
Summon Draconic Spirit: B
Fizban's Platinum Shield: D
Draconic Transformation: A

Of note I have not played these, so this is largely a guess based on the descriptions and analysis without any empirical data. It is possible Ashardalon's stride causes problems in play with damaging allies but on paper it looks managable.
 

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doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
My quick glance is:

Monk subclass is fun and does some stuff monks weren’t doing (well) before.

Ranger sub fails to deliver on what IMO the vast majority of ppl who would want it actually want from it, which is flying on the back of a dragon at a level lower than when the campaign ends. Might as well just play a Paladin and choose a drake and then dragonell as your steed/greater steed.

Just let the Ranger have cool things, wotc. You managed it with the Gloomstalker and then just…stopped.

The spells are fun but don’t do anything I’m losing my mind to get my hands on.

The feats bore me but I can see where others will love them.

The new race variants are solid. I’ll allow my Dragonborn PCs to change over if they want.

The magic items and supernatural gifts are where the book really shines for players. Just excellent work.
 

The Dragonborn of Fizban's are waaaay better than the PHB version. The idea behind the Draconic Gifts/Feats are pretty cool and simple enough to give DMs an idea how to basically kitbash their own. And although items weren't mentioned in the title, a number of them are pretty cool ranging from a Dragon gun that can Disintegrate/render crap to ashes if reduced to zero HP to even a really snazzy belt for Monks that has the potential of answering Ki complaints.

Spells are pretty dope but I have to compare them more to their UA versions before deciding which version of the spells that are allowed to be picked.
 

jgsugden

Legend
Rime's Binding Ice is a Cone with a Con Save or lock someone down until an action is spent to free them (with a bit of damage). That could be real good, but a bit situational. I'm considering swapping a spell out for it with my Aberrant Mind Sorcerer ...

Raulothm's Psychic Lance, however, is a must add for that Sorcerer as a swap out for one of his 4th level class spells. The real question there is whether you can use the lance with the named enemy casting when there are obstructions between you and the target. If you can cast this from behind walls it becomes an insanely effective way to just kill something. An aberrant mind sorcerer could just sit at the cafe, safely a block away from the victim, and drop 9 of these (at 7th level) on that target - and have it be mostly undetectable.
 

Yaarel

Mind Mage
@ECMO3

I am understanding your thread title and original post to mean: how powerful do you think the Fizbans options are, from an optimization point of view?
 



Yaarel

Mind Mage
Superb/Superior.

First time I saw it was old eastern video games. Seems to exist purely for the hype of having something higher than A.
In a char-op context S seems equivalent to the "gold" color. Hence, it is an option that is so much better than other options (perhaps even broken), it is virtually a must-have.
 

In a char-op context S seems equivalent to the "gold" color. Hence, it is an option that is so much better than other options (perhaps even broken), it is virtually a must-have.
Managed to dig this up:

S stands for "shuu" (秀), which is Japanese for "excellent". It comes from the Japanese grading system. Just like how we have A+, A, B, etc. They have their own system which is the same as ours except that instead of A+ they write "S".
 

embee

Lawyer by day. Rules lawyer by night.
I've got a player right now who's playing a Monk of the Ascendant Dragon (since the UA) and is enjoying it.

His "problem" with it is the same problem with a lot of 5e subclasses: so many feats and powers that suboptimal play happens through forgetting just how much the character can do.

On paper, he is theoretically pretty OP. In real play, the wealth of options can get a little overwhelming, especially when a GM puts a time constraint on things (no, I don't let players mull over their next action).
 


Minigiant

Legend
Supporter
Superb/Superior.

First time I saw it was old eastern video games. Seems to exist purely for the hype of having something higher than A.
In a char-op context S seems equivalent to the "gold" color. Hence, it is an option that is so much better than other options (perhaps even broken), it is virtually a must-have.
Managed to dig this up:

S stands for "shuu" (秀), which is Japanese for "excellent". It comes from the Japanese grading system. Just like how we have A+, A, B, etc. They have their own system which is the same as ours except that instead of A+ they write "S".

Pretty much.

It came form old school competitive video gaming that was heavily Japanese influenced. Matches, rounds,and matches often used the Japanese grading system. Getting an S typically mean perfection or near to it so much that it make competition look weak or bad.

Because these games were competetive, the S rank were usually full of broken, exploitative, or straight unbalanced elements. Since these game were competitive, S rank items earned negative connotations. Especially after games could be patched.

Ashardalon's Stride is an S for any melee capable class that gets it as it offers easy offensive and movement power without needing confirmed hitting. There are few melee buffs at 3rd level and no melee+buffs.other than Haste. One quick glance,AS beats Haste.

Someone do the Ashardalon vs Haste calculation.
 

ECMO3

Hero
The Dragonborn of Fizban's are waaaay better than the PHB version. The idea behind the Draconic Gifts/Feats are pretty cool and simple enough to give DMs an idea how to basically kitbash their own. And although items weren't mentioned in the title, a number of them are pretty cool ranging from a Dragon gun that can Disintegrate/render crap to ashes if reduced to zero HP to even a really snazzy belt for Monks that has the potential of answering Ki complaints.

Spells are pretty dope but I have to compare them more to their UA versions before deciding which version of the spells that are allowed to be picked.
I was comparing Dragonborn to all races. I agree they are better than PHB, but I don't think they for the most part that they are much better than most of the other races.
 

ECMO3

Hero
@ECMO3

I am understanding your thread title and original post to mean: how powerful do you think the Fizbans options are, from an optimization point of view?
Yes - powerful or fun. They usually go together or at least if something is weak it is usually less fun unless you build specifically for that.

S - Superb or really awesome. Generally stands alone and does not need synergy from something else.
A - Really good, can't go wrong
B - Generally good, there may be better options
C - Average. There are better options, take it if you like it though.
D - There are much better options. Only take it if you have a specific combination in mind and are sure it is going to work for you
F - Brings very little to your characters
 
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Yaarel

Mind Mage
Yes - powerful or fun. They usually go together or at least if something is weak it is usually less fun unless you build specifically for that.

S - Superb or really awesome. Generally stads alone and does not need synergy from something else
A - Really good, can't go wrong
B - Generally good, there may be better options
C - Average. There are better options, take it if you like it though.
D - There are much better options. Only take it if you have a specific combination in mind and are sure it is going to work for you
F - Brings very little to your characters

I interpret D as either "subpar" or else too "situational". Either way, D deserves a fix.

Heh, F makes me mad that WotC even printed it.
 

ECMO3

Hero
Someone do the Ashardalon vs Haste calculation.
You can't without saying how many enemies there are.

In general, assuming you are casting on someone who does good melee weapon damage and who has a 35 move or less:
Single enemy: Haste will be better in almost every case against 1 enemy. More damage, better defense, more movement, disengage is not usually a problem because you are fighting the guy you want to fight.

Few enemies:
Offense: need to calculate 1 extra attack damage (considering chance to hit) vs automatic 1d6 against everyone within movement range
Defense: AS will give more mobility no OAs, Haste will give you a higher AC
Movement: Haste will give you more movement if your move is 35 or less, however AS makes it easier to use your movement.

Many enemies:
Offense: AS will do more damage
Defense: Same as few enemies, however you are going to want to move with many enemies so they don't surround you.
Movement: AS will play better I think.

For ranged martials AS is better hands down I think, unless you have XBE or gunner.
 


Gift of the Chromatic Dragon: D
Really, do you think it's as bad as that? Average of +2.5 damage per attack for the duration of the combat? Not to mention use in overcoming resistance/immunity/regeneration. Obviously, the more attacks per round you have the better it is. And resistance to whatever damage type you need PB times per day.

I reckon it's significantly better than the metallic gift, which I can't see being much good unless you are a sorcerer or EK and want to add cure wounds to your spell selection and dump Shield.
 

Minigiant

Legend
Supporter
You can't without saying how many enemies there are.

In general, assuming you are casting on someone who does good melee weapon damage and who has a 35 move or less:
Single enemy: Haste will be better in almost every case against 1 enemy. More damage, better defense, more movement, disengage is not usually a problem because you are fighting the guy you want to fight.

Few enemies:
Offense: need to calculate 1 extra attack damage (considering chance to hit) vs automatic 1d6 against everyone within movement range
Defense: AS will give more mobility no OAs, Haste will give you a higher AC
Movement: Haste will give you more movement if your move is 35 or less, however AS makes it easier to use your movement.

Many enemies:
Offense: AS will do more damage
Defense: Same as few enemies, however you are going to want to move with many enemies so they don't surround you.
Movement: AS will play better I think.

For ranged martials AS is better hands down I think, unless you have XBE or gunner.

Of course You'll have to do the attack and defense calculation vs single or multiple enemies.

However by the time you get 3rd level spells as a half or third caster, a sane DM would have chump warriors to zigzag around with Ashardalon Stride after a caster spends a low slot on AOE. And if your party has a tank already.

50 foot speed no OA auto damage is great compared to whatever else you have for "AOE"
 


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